For Us or Against Us: Egyptians Confront Clinton with Conspiracy Theories

While secular activists worry the U.S. may be supporting an Islamist rise, the only thing certain is that Washington is losing influence over Cairo

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BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI / AFP / Getty Images

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Egyptian Foreign Minister Mohamed Kamel Amr hold a joint press conference in Cairo on July 14, 2012

It may not have been what U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was expecting on her first visit to Cairo since Egyptians voted in their first democratic presidential election in the country’s history last month. But for a portion of her two-day visit to the Arab world’s largest country, Clinton found herself confronting the ultimate reversal of Arab-world conspiracy theories. According to some of the civil-society leaders and activists she met with — as well as some who refused to meet with her at all — the U.S., once allegedly the backer of Hosni Mubarak’s authoritarian regime, is now a supporter of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood. One Egyptian-American Christian who attended a meeting with the Secretary of State on Sunday even cited Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachman’s recent assertion that the Obama Administration is pursuing a closeted pro-Muslim agenda.

“They had their concerns and were even angry with the situation on the part of the American Administration, which has implied in the past few weeks that it is blessing the rise of political Islam in Egypt,” explained Youssef Sidhom, a prominent Christian activist and newspaper editor, who was present at Clinton’s Sunday meeting with Egyptian-Christian leaders. Egypt’s Christian minority, and indeed many secularists, have grown increasingly vocal about their fears of an Islamist rise since the election of Muslim Brotherhood candidate Mohamed Morsy as President in June. Sidhom said that Clinton convincingly reassured the meeting on Sunday that the U.S. has not and will not side with any political party.

(PHOTOS: Hillary Clinton Goes Globetrotting)

But the confrontation underscores the increasingly murky political waters that the U.S. Administration has sought to navigate in the 18 months since a popular uprising ended the 30-year reign of longtime U.S. ally Mubarak. Last month’s presidential vote propelled Morsy, an official from the once banned Muslim Brotherhood, into the country’s highest seat of power. And the power struggle that has since ensued between Morsy and the unelected military generals, who took power when Mubarak stepped down and have proven unwilling to fully let go, has only deepened the political swamp.

One U.S. official confided to TIME on Sunday that the Secretary of State’s first postelectoral visit was challenging in large part due to the lack of obvious counterparts for Clinton and her staff to meet with amid the ongoing power struggle, since Morsy has yet to appoint a Cabinet. Another official said that within the status quo, it’s also sometimes unclear — even among military leaders and within the presidency — which individuals are the real decisionmakers.

Egyptians have long propagated conspiracy theories to explain the generally opaque doings of their corrupt government. And their suspicions of the U.S. have only grown in the past 18 months, as U.S. officials have sought to promote democracy in the country, while simultaneously seeking guarantees from the unelected junta of respect for U.S. interests, particularly Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel. U.S.-Egyptian tensions hit a new high in January when Egypt’s prosecution of several prominent American NGOs had Washington threatening to halt Egypt’s $1.3 billion in annual military aid. But the retrospective emptiness of those threats — despite the lack of a resolution to the NGO crisis, and recent moves by the military to consolidate rather than cede power — may have only bolstered the generals’ confidence, and hammered in another uncomfortable truth for U.S. officials: American influence in Egypt is waning.

(MORE: Is Egypt’s President Morsy Really Challenging the Ruling Junta?)

Perhaps in acknowledgment of that fact, Clinton struck a decidedly softer tone on the military during her visit, compared with the statements made by the State Department last month after the generals dissolved the country’s elected parliament and seized legislative control for themselves. After meeting with President Morsy on Saturday, Clinton told reporters that the U.S. continues to support Egypt’s “full transition to civilian rule with all that entails,” and she outlined a $1 billion debt-relief package. But she trod cautiously around the military’s recent power grab, saying: “The issues around the parliament, the constitution have to be resolved between and among Egyptians.”

Human-rights groups say that the military council has sent more than 10,000 civilians to closed military tribunals in the past 18 months, and it has been repeatedly implicated in the use of violence and torture against protesters. Activists warn that those abuses may continue as long as the military maintains a role in Egyptian politics. But it’s not clear whether Clinton broached these issues when she met with Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, the head of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), on Sunday. A high-ranking State Department official only said that the two had discussed Egypt’s transition, Tantawi’s “ongoing dialogue with President Morsy,” minority rights and the Obama Administration’s proposed economic-aid package.

In her remarks on Saturday, Clinton commended the SCAF “for representing the Egyptian people in the revolution, as compared to what we’re seeing in Syria, which is the military murdering their own people.” The comparison drew frustrated responses from some activists. “Kind of a low bar,” tweeted one anonymous Cairene. “‘Thanks for not butchering children!’ Maybe SCAF will reply with ‘Thanks for not invading us!’” But as Clinton departed for Israel on Sunday afternoon for the final leg of a world tour that included Afghanistan and East Asia, U.S. officials also seemed to suggest that their hands were tied when it comes to exerting much influence in Egypt’s unfolding political drama. “Only Egyptians can choose their leaders,” is the message that Clinton sought to convey in all of her meetings, stressed one senior State Department official. “We have not supported any candidate, any party, and we will not. But what we do support is a full transition to democratic civilian governance.”

MORE: How The Military Won The Egyptian Election

58 comments
Bruce Miller
Bruce Miller

Humanity will witness a Middle East alliance, a struggle among Muslims, and an Islamic State arise. This state will form further alliances with the new Asian reality on that land mass - the Chinese and their Yuan. Already apparent is hte Asian Alliances, the Russians dealing in petroleum products for Yuan, South East Asians seeking cover from the Imperialists. We are watching the "Hand-over" of the American efforts to the Chinese - even witnessing the American Military playing a mercenary role in the South China seas with the Chinese blessing. Be well aware: China has a "controlling interest" in the American economy today. Mrs. Clinton, a Jew and Zionist, is paving the way for her clan's comfortable berth in the new Pan Eurasian Empire as it forms before our eyes - Check out Bill Gate's involvement with nuclear Power in Asia - he does the same - they prepare for the inevitable, planned, deflation of the U.S. Dollar and their emigration to this newer, richer, marketplace, as many American corporations have already done. Compare Detroit City skylines to Shanghai skylines and draw your own conclusions.

last Pharaoh
last Pharaoh

Mrs. Clinton, have u ever wondered why the world don't like ur policy ?

Sid sridhar
Sid sridhar

The Middle East has changed so much that the relevance of the US is a serious question. The US is trying very hard to stay relevant but this is not very convincing to the local players. For the first time, the US is supporting Islamic parties and not the Military. The rationale is that, if Turkey can produce a secular islamic model, then we have hope in Egypt too. In this strategy, the US is co-opting the Saudis. The flaw in this reasoning is that Turkey was able to make the transformation, after years of secularism since Ataturk.Not so in the Arab world. Secondly, the Saudis have their own agenda because they want to spread their brand of wahabism. Their hope is that an Arab Spring will not engulf their turf! Iran is a useful counter balance to the Sunni Saudis and matters a lot in Iraq and other non-Sunni people. For all intents and purposes, the US will shift focus to Asia Pacific until the dust settles in the Middle East. For the first time, the Islamic world is asking the US to declare, whose side are they on! These changes are so significant that the next decade could see a total change to the map of the Middle East

Smail Buzzby
Smail Buzzby

The US can choose leaders for other countries, but not for Egypt?  But we CAN (DID!) prop up their jerk of a dictator for decades?

Why are we so concerned with what happens in some countries and happy to let the UN drool all over itself while others suffer?

It would be great if we stopped meddling and giving 'support' to foreign nations.  Emergency aid for a disaster? - no problem.  Annual handouts of billions of dollars in cash and weapons?  Not so good.  For them or for us.

If we didn't meddle then Bin Laden wouldn't have attacked us.  These idiot Egyptian conspiracy nutjobs wouldn't have a theory.  So many of our problems would cease to be.

dimukh
dimukh

Whole world knows opportunist Muslim Brotherhood hijacked the reformist agenda of Arab Springs. It is interesting to find America is paying $1 billion of 'ransom' money to the hijackers whose notoriety was well known during Mubarak's regime. Hope, America's foreign policy has shown some maturity this time considering MB's ideology nurtures democracy liked not only by Islamists but by all Egyptians.

27
27

When you know that getting involved with a foreign country in a civil war will result in X, and you do get involved... you can't blame others, especially those with something to lose, begin to look at you suspiciously.

Obama can deny he's a muslim all he wants but his actions strongly suggest otherwise.

Sam Rose
Sam Rose

dude, you're embarrassing yourself.  The U.S. supported Mubarak and SCAF with billions - they were not Muslim. The U.S. wants a coalition between SCAF and  the MB so that they pretend to have a democratic face (The US has no interest in real democracy) but that the old power structure still rules. 

yamblah
yamblah

The way out of this mess is to have more babies!

onaturalia
onaturalia

The problem as I see it is the Egyptians want to 'use' the U.S. to promote it's politics. But the U.S. foreign policy and Clinton have consistently fallen on the side of democratic changes. This doesn't serve everyones interest.

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

 "But the U.S. foreign policy and Clinton have consistently fallen on the side of democratic changes"That may be the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. The U.S. has no interest in democracy. It continues to support SCAF with Billions as they brutalize, jail and torture Egyptian protestors from the revolution. 

Porkys2istan
Porkys2istan

I hope Obama knows what he's doing. Unlike Bush who invaded a whole country without knowing anything about the tribes, factions, or balance of power in the region, Bush handed the region to the Iranians on a silver platter all because Saddam tried to assassinate his daddy.

I think it's just a turd sandwich and this is the best that can be done right now. The Islamists are sweeping into power across the middle east, but they may not last for long. When the power doesn't work, and the garbage isn't collected blaming every problem on Israel and America will get old real quick.

The problem is that once in real power Islamists are like communists and fascists. The people never get (another) real election without violence, and Mubarak's military junta will seem like friendly kittens compared to the terror squads the Salafists will unleash on everyone who doesn't 'vote' the right (Muslim) way.

Ask Iran and Saudi Arabia how well their 'Arab Springs' is going.

Sam Rose
Sam Rose

your comment is shown to be completely false by the historical and empirical evidence:  Islam is not a major threat to the world compared to U.S. imperialism - the US has supported brutal regime after brutal regime and killed hundreds of thousands many many times (starting with the genocide in the Philippines in 1898) - the history of US imperialism in one of blood. The fact that the US is supporting the MB here shows they don't really think that Islam is the enemy  - what they are really afraid of is the revolutions of workers and poor oppressed peoples in the region - people oppressed in many cases by US client states. The revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia threatened the stability that the US had their that allowed them to churn out the oil profits and keep the masses in poverty - when the people rose up to stop this, the US had to scramble to find a way to put them back in their place.  The greatest enemy of these oppressed people in the Middle East is US imperialism, by far.

Michael Ali
Michael Ali

All is based on out flank the Turks the NAACP has it joined the anti Turk group of 'hollywood Nazis'.If the USA were supporting the 'Brotherhood' would be indication 'Brotherhood ' is Anti Turk - If Egypt is smart they would support Turkey 110 %

Arnold Evans
Arnold Evans

Egyptians have long propagated conspiracy theories to explain the

generally opaque doings of their corrupt government. And their

suspicions of the U.S. have only grown in the past 18 months, as U.S.

officials have sought to promote democracy in the country, while

simultaneously seeking guarantees from the unelected junta of respect

for U.S. interests, particularly Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel.

Egypt's corrupt government?  What about the corrupt government that is paying bribes to Egypt's government? Maybe a US publication could mention that country.

Morsi does not sit in the most powerful seat in the country, Tantawi has stripped the presidency of all foreign policy influence and assumed legislative powers when he voided the parliamentary elections and dismissed the parliament.

Another pro-US dictator now sits where Mubarak sat, receiving about $1.5 billion per year in aid that the people of Egypt have no accountability over.

This is not the Egyptian's corrupt government.  It is the United States' corrupt government.

paulmason1
paulmason1

If the Taleban insist on putting the entire World's children at risk, then it seems moral and just to simply eliminate the Taliban, for the good of the World's children.  Isn't that logical, moral, and just?  If I am wrong, please point out my error of logic.

Thanks,

Paul the Mg Librarian 

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

 If you look at the data, the U.S. is much more a threat to the people of the world than any Muslim group, The U.S has invaded, occupied and mass murdered in two nations in the Middle East recently, has invaded and committed mass murder in many others since the turn of the 20th century, starting with the genocide in the Philippines in 1898. It has supported hundreds of brutal right-wing regimes that mass murder, rape and torture. I agree with your logic, but apply it to  U.S. imperialism - the most powerful and brutal killing machine the world has ever seen.

Arnold Evans
Arnold Evans

Egyptians have long propagated conspiracy theories to explain the

generally opaque doings of their corrupt government. And their

suspicions of the U.S. have only grown in the past 18 months, as U.S.

officials have sought to promote democracy in the country, while

simultaneously seeking guarantees from the unelected junta of respect for U.S. interests, particularly Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel.

How dare a US publication describe the Egyptian government as corrupt, without mentioning the corruption of the US government that is paying bribes to the Egyptian government?

Whose corrupt government is it? It's more the US' corrupt government than it is Egyptians'.

Also, since the dictatorship has unilaterally stripped the presidency of any power to set or execute foreign policy, and also assumed legislative powers, let's not claim Morsi sits in the country's highest seat of power. Tantawi sits there and is just as much the American stooge as Mubarak was.  Which is why he sits there.

http://mideastreality.blogspot...

Redidmus
Redidmus

 Don't kill. Don't rape. Don't steal. Don't be a jerk.   The basic moral values that all humans agree on.  Why do Humans care so much about who their neighbors worship, have

consenting adult to adult sex with, or what side of a border you grew up

on?  As long as you are a nice person. It's some messed up left over from the dawn of man we just somehow can't shed.  Someday I hope we can look back as a species and laugh about how stupid we were.

blindanddumb
blindanddumb

 its not about what god you worship, its about wanting the group you belong to to hold the power

Ari Asulin
Ari Asulin

which is more absurd? The conspiracy theories from Egyptians? or the conspiracy theories from everyone on this comment forum?

Hard to decide.

Christopher Corvino
Christopher Corvino

What else did she expect? This is what happens when u support religious fundamentalists. 

Avraham
Avraham

The USA supported the results of the elections.

Do you forget (Republican) George Bush and Gaza + Hamas???

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Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

Let's be clear: the U.S. has supported, funded, and armed a brutal dictator in Egypt for decades. He was considered a close ally.  This is business as usual for U.S. imperialism. Supporting murderous and torturing regimes as long as they kept stability, crushed leftists and workers' movements, and aided U.S. profit making.   The U.S. would have loved to see Mubarak stay in power, but he became a liability to stability, so he was ejected in favor of an open military dictatorship under SCAF for a time. But the U.S. and SCAF are clever enough know that the revolution will not be bought off with that, so they need a civilian fig leaf - an illusion of democracy, and the MB has made it clear that they are not a real threat to SCAF and will work with them when necessary.  If the U.S. wanted to get rid of the military dictatorship, they could cancel the billions of dollars of aid they send SCAF, but that will never happen, because SCAF is exactly what U.S. imperialism wants in the region.

Brett Gasper
Brett Gasper

Seth, your hatred for the US is simply mindboggling. Aside from your own conspiracy theories you might learn something of history. During the Cold war, the regime of Gamal Abdel Nasser's Socialist Pan Arabism was in the Soviet realm of influence - a relationship that exists with other Ba'athist Nations, like Syria, today.When you point to so-called "US imperialism" and other opinionated diatribe, be aware that you do not hold the US to a paradox ie:If the US establishes a relationship with the leader of a country (Mubarak) it is an imperialist.If the US overthrows the leader of a country (Sadam Hussein) it is an imperialist.If the US isolates itself from the leader of a country (Ayatollah Khameini) it is an imperialist.Just because you hate the US - doesn't mean that the US is imperialist. The US has been the promoter of Democracy and self determination since the days of the enlightenment.It is very apparent that because you enumerate yourself with a minority of socialists, that have proven to be abyssimal failures, you are bitter and commence with your America bashing.You are an ignoramus and a bitter malcontempt.

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

http://killinghope.org/ 

At the bottom of this site is a map of US military interventions - this, combined with the map linked to below, with US military bases, make it clear that we are dealing with imperialism here, not just that, but the dominant imperial power on the planet currently. 

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

 OK, now the details. The U.S. began its quest for an empire as it was becoming a major industrial power, around the turn of the 20th century. It turned its sights on the remains of the Spanish empire, which was weak and declining.  The U.S. started this war (see USS Maine) and fought to take over the colonies.  Of particular interest was the Philippines:  the US went in, encouraging the local to fight against the Spanish for their freedom, when they did rise up and throw the Spanish out, they expected their freedom, but the US made it clear that the Philippines would be come a U.S. colony - the people of the Philippines rose up against the U.S. and the U.S. started a brutal war to suppress the Filipino people - culminating with the first genocide of the 20th century, committed by the U.S. : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

so we can go on from there - Direct and brutal interventions in Korea, Vietnam (killing millions), The Dominican Republic, Iraq, Afghanistan - just to name  few. A great deal of the U.S.'s imperialist work has been the support for right-wing brutal regimes that mass murdered an tortured again and again, Mubarak was just one - all of them pro-business. The support for Menocal and Batista in Cuba, The Duvaliers in Haiti, Trujillo in the DR, Marcos in the Philippines, Suharto in Indonesia. The engineering of the coup against the democratically elected Allende to put in the brutal Pinochet (well documented as CIA-directed). The Shah of Iran. Current support for The monarchies of Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

This is what the US needs to keep its global empire going - in most cases, they franchise out - they don't occupy - they learned the lessons from the colonialists (although not well enough to stop them from occupying Iraq and Afghanistan).   In order for US business to prosper worldwide, the threat of the US military is used - MacDonald's needs Macdonald Douglass.  The removal of regimes that might threaten US interests, or the military intervention in nations where rising workers' movements might threaten profits is the M.O. of the U.S - pure and simple.

Your argument that Nasser was in the sphere of the USSR makes no difference - the cold war was simply two rival imperialisms - US and USSR, dividing the world, with the USSR being a junior partner and making sure that places were the workers and poor rose up ended up not challenging world capitalism (Vietnam, for example).

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

Wow, you really do not know your history at all and have bought all that patriotic nonsense hook line and sinker.  I used to pro-US until I learned the history. Please note, I am not against the US people, I am against the US capitalist class and their government, power structure and how they brutalize the world. The interests of the rich and powerful in the US have nothing to do with those of the working people and poor in this country - in fact, they are directly opposite.

مصطفى الكومي
مصطفى الكومي

اليساريين الآن في مصرهم حلفاء أمريكا وسند للمجلس العسكري المدعوم من أمريكا

omegafrontier
omegafrontier

Do you even know what imperialism mean?  The US must be a very dyslexic imperialist for it to support human rights, equal trades, fund schools, economic aids, and now democracy in Egypt.

You are as worse as Newt Gingrich and his usage of Nazism to describe everything.

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

 If you really want to debate, we can - I will crush you with an overload of facts and details.

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

 That is the most amusing thing I have ever heard - the true history of the U.S. - especially since 1898 or so is the exact opposite of what you are saying:  mass murder, genocide, invasion, hostile occupation, support for brutal regimes that torture and around the world, economic exploitation and oppression, the destruction of whole economies - learn your history before you post - those lies you learned in school that are pushed by the media and the government are nonsense - land of the free, support for freedom and democracy around the world, benign economic aid - that myth has been debunked many times , please open your eyes.

Margie
Margie

like Barry answered I am blown away that someone able to profit $8634 in four weeks on the internet. did you see this web page ProuÐRìçh.Çom

blindanddumb
blindanddumb

 yes i think so  . .." an illusion of democracy" . . .sounds like the US too. oh yes you can vote  you want Coke or Pepsi ??

Marquita P. Evans
Marquita P. Evans

The U.S. should offer no assistance whatsoever to

that bigoted cesspool. ..AlluringWay.blogspot.com

Seth Rosenberg
Seth Rosenberg

 U.S. much more racist and brutal than Egypt could ever be. 

Arnold Evans
Arnold Evans

To add to this, the Muslim Brotherhood and affiliated parties won the most votes in every election so far.  The US is not helping them gain power any more than Mubarak helped Obama gain power.  The Muslim Brotherhood was rightfully put in power by Egypt's voters.

What the US is doing is funding, with no accountability to the Egyptian people, a pro-US Egyptian dictatorship that has already said promised the US will ensure that foreign policy, policy regarding Israel, is not under the control of Egypt's voters.

Hillary Clinton is flat out lying when she claims to want to see authority turned to civilians.  As you say the United States has $1.5 billion per year in payments to the military dictatorship that it can, but does not, put where its mouth is.

Arnold Evans
Arnold Evans

Exactly correct. If I could add:

In 1922 the British Empire offered Egypt "qualified independence" which meant the Egyptian monarchy was free to set policy in every area the British did not care about, and Britain would set policy in the areas it cared about.

In 2012 the Barack Obama administration offers Egypt "qualified democracy" in which an elected president can set policy over any area the US does not care about, but the old dictatorship will execute policy on the US' behalf in every other area.

The people of Egypt deserve to know exactly how much money is being spent by the US to buy influence with Egypt's military dictatorship and where that money is going.  The US will not tell them because Barack Obama is, like Britain's David Lloyd George almost a century ago, an imperial leader who presumes to determine Egyptian policy over the heads of the people and voters of Egypt.

A truly disgusting display on the part of the United States.

http://mideastreality.blogspot...

franklintank
franklintank

U.S. imperialism???

It has nothing to do with any of the reasons you cited. Take a look at the article, Rosenberg.

Our government supported Mubarak and now the SCAF because of pressure from Israel.

Zionists distort and manipulate our foreign policy in the Middle East.

Christopher Corvino
Christopher Corvino

Funny u say that when most anti Americans i talk with r telling a different story of the US deliberately starting these uprisings for the purpous of causing instability in the region.

Sam Rose
Sam Rose

Lots of conspiracy theories out there that say the elites want chaos as part of the 'new world order' - but that is all nonsense. The reality is clear: the U.S. is the world's hegemonic power - it is on top, it wants to stay there and will murder, main and destroy to stay there. The system that the US is on top of is world capitalism - fueled by oil, and much of it is in the middle east.  in order to stay on top, the US has to dominate and oppress the region, and keep it stable. No small feat now, but that is what they need and what. Pretty simple really.

Abso Lutely
Abso Lutely

Wow, Muslims being rude and violent.  Gee,

that so unlike them LOL.  And Egypt discriminates against women, gays,

Jews, and Christians.  The U.S. should offer no assistance whatsoever to

that bigoted cesspool.

ricardo lion
ricardo lion

  Sorry, but 

Egypt do not discriminate against Jews, because those were ALL kicked out long ago.  

Egypt, like most of Muslim Arab countries, is judenrein.  But don't you worry, those Jews are not living in refugee camps anymore and don't blow themsleves up, of course.

dalihk
dalihk

Well, Israel is the same way, so clearly the U.S. is highly in favor of supporting "bigoted cesspools".

ricardo lion
ricardo lion

Israel is

the Jewish (the religion of Jesus), democratic (rights for all) and civilized

(no civil war,  hanging of gays, women

stoning, “honour” killing of girls by their own fathers and brothers, etc)

country in the region.

Avraham
Avraham

Are you kidding me!!! Israel, while not perfect 1] Is the only "functioning" democracy in the ME 2] Does NOT discriminate against gays, allowing their unmarried partners immigration rights 3] Has a vibrant free amp; open press 4] Has many Christian Churches amp; organizations operating 5] Allows Muslims to control the affairs of the Temple Mount 6] Has vibrant hi-tech amp; medical research that benefits the world... and on amp; on. There is simply no comparison.

True, they are a 'tough' people living in a rough neighborhood, surrounded by those wishing their elimination (repeatedly since 1949!)

Your comment is (sadly) bigoted amp; ill-informed, but not unusual...

last Pharaoh
last Pharaoh

Check your torah amp; talmud, midrash, they r not different than Quran. All of them against gays, minorities, non-Muslims or non-Jewish. ALL are the same.

BTW : Except the Muslim Extremists "which are packed by the American administration" , lots of people in the "rough neighborhood" want to live in peace.

Charles Edward Frith
Charles Edward Frith

Israel is not a democracy. There's an open air prison called the Gaza strip for second class Palestinians. Only racists say that Israel is a democracy.

Sam Rose
Sam Rose

Israel is about as democratic as South Africa was before the regime change. Israel is well documented as an Apartheid state.  Israel is defined as a 'jewish state' first and foremost. This means clearly, in reality, that Jews there have rights and privileges that others there do not have: the right to land, the ability to move into a new community, also the ability to emigrate there:  Palestinians ethnically cleansed from their land are not allow back into the country and cannot claim their land, while I, as a jew who has never been to Israel, can move there anytime and probably be given some land that was stolen from a Palestinian family. I am jewish myself, and i am disgusted by the inequality and oppression of the Palestinians in Israel.  

For more details on how the line that "Israel is a democracy" is a lie and a myth put forward by the U.S. mainstream media to beef up support for this Apartheid state - see Ben White's book: "Palestinians in Israel"  - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

DougieFresh1
DougieFresh1

I'm not pro-Israel or anything but do agree with 99% of your comment except you forgot the 60 plus year old democracy in Turkey.  Though, yes not as liberal, they do have a thriving democracy.  Maybe depends on your deffinition of "functioning" but that's more cultral...some for example would question the U.S. as a "functioning" democracy.