Gujarat Riots: New Court Verdict Raises the Heat on Narendra Modi

A court case in the western Indian state of Gujarat, dealing out justice a decade after some of the country's worst religious violence, may haunt the man vying to be India's next Prime Minister

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SAM PANTHAKY / AFP / Getty Images

An unidentified Indian prisoner consoles his son from inside a police vehicle in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, on Aug. 29, 2012, after his murder conviction. A former state minister and 31 others were convicted for their involvement in the Gujarat riots of 2002

On Friday, a special court in Gujarat sentenced a former state minister to 28 years and 30 others to life imprisonment for inciting violence, murder and rioting in the 2002 Gujarat riots in which 2,500 people were killed, the majority of them Muslim. The most high-profile conviction to date in the riots case, Maya Kodnani, a 57-year-old former minister and stalwart of right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) that rules the state, was charged with inciting mob violence and murder during what is known as the Naroda Patiya massacre, during which nearly 100 Muslims were killed.

Earlier in the week, special prosecutor Akhil Desai had sought the death penalty for all those convicted. “In this case, more than 90 persons have lost their lives. Most of them were children and women,” Desai said in court. “For all the 32 accused, I have argued for death penalty or life imprisonment. The accused cannot be pardoned for such a crime.” In the end, Kodnani was handed 28 years, and the others life.

In February 2002, a train full of Hindu pilgrims and activists was set on fire by an allegedly Muslim mob in the town of Godhra, killing 59. For the next few months, a spate of gruesome retaliatory incidents, including rape, murder and torture, unfolded in Muslim neighborhoods in certain parts of the state. Naroda Patiya, an industrial and predominantly Muslim area, lying 8 km from the city of Ahmedabad, was among those attacked by Hindu groups, allegedly with the knowledge of certain members of the state government. Around 70 people, including Kodnani, were arrested in connection with the attack. Trials began in August 2009, and on Wednesday the court heard around 327 witnesses, including victims, doctors, forensic experts and government officials, before handing out the conviction.

(MORE: Why Narendra Modi Is India’s Most Loved and Most Loathed Politico)

Kodnani, a doctor who ran the state ministry for women and child development, is sentenced to spend the next 28 years behind bars. She is the first senior BJP leader to be convicted in the Gujarat riots case, a blow to the sitting government headed by Chief Minister Narendra Modi. Modi has consistently maintained that the riots were spontaneous and there was no criminal conspiracy by the state government, as has been alleged by witnesses, and Kodnani’s conviction is deeply problematic for the rising BJP star. Modi inducted Kodnani into the cabinet as a minister in 2007, where she served for two years until being dismissed after her arrest. An editorial in Wednesday’s Hindu opined that “it stretches incredulity” that Kodnani could “could enter into a conspiracy with her co-accused without the government getting a whiff of the group’s criminal intentions and conduct, before, during and after the killing.”

BJP leaders immediately distanced themselves from the verdict, pointing out that Kodnani was a state legislator — not a minister — during the 2002 riots and that her conviction does not implicate her party colleagues. “Mayaben Kodnani was not a minister when the massacre took place,” Jai Narayan Vyas, spokesperson for the Gujarat government, told reporters after the conviction. “Her conviction cannot be linked to the government.” But political observers doubt Modi or the BJP, the main opposition party in the central government, will come out unscathed. “It is a damage that cannot be easily washed away, and the Congress Party is going to play hard on that,” says Bhaskar Roy, a Delhi-based political analyst. “[Kodnani] was a member of the state legislative assembly when this happened, but after the riots she was made a minister by Modi, and this can be interpreted as Modi rewarding her for what she had done.”

Modi has yet to make a public statement on the convictions. On Wednesday, the day of the conviction, the Wall Street Journal published an interview with Modi in which he stated, as he as in the past, that he doesn’t feel the need to apologize for the riots. “I think Modi should get the biggest punishment possible if he is guilty,” he said, referring to himself in the third person. “And the world should know there isn’t any tolerance for these kind of political leaders.”

Part of Kodnani’s conviction rested on technical evidence from the location of her mobile phone, tracked by investigators between Feb. 25 and March 7, 2002, which kept moving to areas where the worst of the rioting was taking place. This became key to Kodnani’s arrest. Investigators also allegedly found that Kodnani made several calls to Modi’s office in this period. “The state government has always said that these were official calls, but now it will become very difficult to explain why one of the main accused was in constant touch with the [chief minister’s] office,” says Mukul Sinha, a lawyer-activist with Jan Sangharsh Morcha, the nonprofit who had analyzed the mobile-phone conversations. “Modi is feeling the heat now … no matter what his external positioning, the forces that he had incited and instigated will catch up with him soon.”

While Kodnani and her co-accused may go on to appeal in higher courts in a process that could continue for years, observers in New Delhi are watching closely today to see the immediate fallout of the convictions in the heated political battle between the BJP and the ruling Congress Party. Modi and the BJP survived the 2002 riots and came back to power in the state in 2007. But with Gujarat going to the polls at the end of this year and the fight for 2014 national elections well under way, the political futures of both Modi and his party are looking less than certain.

96 comments
13Aditigupta
13Aditigupta

@apoorvjn @hellogunj i think, Apoorv jain got Male Organ instead of Mind, this is our 2nd Pappu, Amul Boy = DumbRahulGandhi = Apoorv jain

Rajeev Sahadevan
Rajeev Sahadevan

I bet 99 % of all the people who commented below , Dont live in Gujarat or is a Muslim :)) 

But i swear it is truly entertaining to look at dogs bark at an elephant..

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

To the moderator

Why the hell my comments are in review when they are liked by 17 people. It is the second most popular post. I think you need to be neutral not favoring one group of people.

Manpreet Goraya
Manpreet Goraya

Got reminded of a Joke about Laloo Prasad Yadav. A doctor moves to Patna from New Delhi for his Job and could see the guys who stole his car right after he moved. He was able to have an access to Laloo Prasad Yadav, while he was a CM of Bihar, and goes directly to file a complain with him. Next thing he notices is that the Thief is sitting right next to Laloo.

omshantiom
omshantiom

I wish for peace for entire world.Please whoever reads this article reqest you to  send a prayer of peace amp; happiness to everyone in this world .

Yashwanth Dhakshana
Yashwanth Dhakshana

they just had a survey recently and over 42% of indians said they want modi as the next pm. chances of modi being beaten in gujurat in the next few months are slim and chances of him not becoming the next pm are even slimmer. the whole of india wants a visionary like modi as our leader and a man who cares about the future of the country, is business friendly and tech savvy at the same time. 

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

@Humanity1011:disqus 

@Maaq:disqus 

Read this and will tell you all about your religion and mullahs!

Pakistani mullah accused of trying to frame girl in blasphemy case

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl... 

"The case against a Pakistani Christian girl potentially facing a death sentence for allegedly burning sacred Islamic texts has been thrown into doubt after her local mullah was arrested on accusations of tampering with evidence in order to frame her. Human rights groups say the blasphemy laws are often used to settle vendettas and property disputes. People have been sentenced to long jail terms on extremely weak evidence, some of which cannot even be examined in court for fear of repeating the alleged blasphemy.Others have been killed by furious mobs, such as last July when a mentally ill man was dragged from a police station in Punjab province and burned alive in the street."

Why should a girl face death for burning or desecrating Koran. Why is in Islam it is always death for even minor infractions if at all if it happened?

In fact in all Islamic countries minorities are  persecuted by false accusations and kangaroo court trails under Sharia laws. This is not just one case in Pakistan. There are hundreds of thousands of such cases across all Islamic countries. 

Update

Taliban Behead 17 for Singing and Dancing

http://abcnews.go.com/Internat...

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

@Humanity1011:disqus 

"Your hate and ignorance don't  have any boundaries. The version of Hinduism that you are preaching is the hindusim of Modi (who killed thousands of Muslims) ,Godse (hindu fundamentalist who killed Gandhi) and BJP."

You are talking about my hate?

Another way to spell Islam is HATRED, TERRORISM, KILLING INFIDELS.

The whole world knows about it. I do not have to prove anything.

"The version of Hinduism that you are preaching is the hindusim of Modi (who killed thousands of Muslims) ,Godse (hindu fundamentalist who killed Gandhi) and BJP."

Modi and Godse's Hinduism is any day a thousand times better than the Islam preached by Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Wahhabis and most of Muslisms.

"Caste system is well and alive even today. un-touchability and caste system exist in india with all its strength. Even in US, Indians go with the caste system. People even get killed if they marry outside caste system."

India is a country of billion+ people. There will always be some people especially in the rural areas that practice age old practices. Not very different than racism in US and other western countries. As I mentioned to you earlier in my posts, whether you call it caste system or not, Islam discriminates all its sects (Shias, Ismailis, Alawites etc etc) other than Sunnis. As I mentioned you guys KILL each other BRUTALLY. This does not happen in other religions.

"Hindusim doesn't belive in equality of man. Brahmin is the supreme one followed by Kshtriya, Vayshya and Shudra. As per Vedas, Brahmins were created from the head of Brahma, Kshatriya from arms of Brahma, Vayshya from his belley, and Shudra (lower caste) from the feet of Brahma. So Hinduism proclaims that by birth, shudra is inferior to other castes. And only  way Shudra can get salvation (Moksha) is by serving superior castes."

Absolute BS! Your ignorance of Hinduism is of GALACTIC PROPORTIONS

As I said,  in every religion, culture and society some people take advantage of their status, power and wealth and exploit religion to their benefit. In fact ISLAM is a classic example of this. The Saudi and the Iranian clergy have taken advantage of fear of religion and they use it to rule the society. The Saudi kings keep the wealth. If Islam treats all human beings the same, it should translate into democracy in the political domain of a society. None of the Islamic countries have democracy. Most of them are either ruled by royalty (using wealth to their own advantage) or dictatorships (using power to their own advantage).

"It is in this context

of multitude of gods and castes that Islam came to India. People became Muslims

because it gave them dignity.  

There is nothing wrong with multitudes of gods. Every one has the FREEDOM to see God as they see fit and desire. In Islam the concept of God and everything associated with is seen through FEAR. Even questioning the religious clergy, the religion itself and God is considered a great sin and punishable by death. In Hinduism such DRACONIANISM does not exist. You can see how advanced Hinduism was even in 5000BC. 

"Islam teaches that all humans are created equal and the best among are most righteous."

As i said earlier all religions preach this and Islam is no better at this than other religions.

"The message of Islam was an eye opener for millions of people. It gave them a new meaning to their life, to believe in one God and be righteous" 

The message of Hinduism was also an eye opener to billions. Do you know that Buddhism was born out of Hinduism and if China is considered a non-communist state most of them would be Buddhists in addition to Japan and many other east and south east Asian countries. There will be more Hindus, Budhhists and Sikhs put together in the world than all Muslims combined. So have you seen how many eyes Hindusim, Busdhism and Sikhism has opened.

"There is a well known Hindua Matra "Lokho Samastho Sukhino Bhavantu". the meaning of this mantra and its preceding lines are roughly like.'Kings take care of Brahmins. Brahmins and Cows are happy. And the whole world is happy'. So in the view of hardliner hindus, if the Brahmins (upper caste Hindu) and cows are happy, then the whole world is happy. In other words, only brahmins and cows mattered, and everything else dont count.

Even now, riots break out if cows are slaughtered for food, especially if it is done by some one from minorities. I wish Hindus give some consideration for their fellow human being even if they are not Hindus."

Why don't Muslims eat pigs? Eating pork was not good in the olden days because of tape worm problems. But the in modern days there isn't any tape worm issues and most pigs are raised in cleaner environments but billion+ Muslims do not eat pigs., Isn't it the same stupidity?

Also your Halal BS, in olden days fresh meat was necessary because there was no refrigeration. In these modern days since refrigeration is widely available, halal is unnecessary. But again billion+ mu slims follow it because the religion says it.  So you see the stupidity of religious BS in Islam.

All religions are GOOD! Period! 

God first of all did not make any religion. Only human beings made religions. But if a religion preached violence and draconian and brutal and if it is imposed om people with force and violence then it is a religion that does not belong in the 21st century. That is what Islam is all about.

Before you criticize Hinduism, preach your brand of Islam to Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Boko Haram and other terrorists and see if they agree. You probably will be killed as an infidel. If they don't make you an infidel, your brand of Islam is same as their Islam, the Islam of the extremists.

rahul srivastava
rahul srivastava

every body in comment column seems to hate other religion , they have there stories , but as they say "common sense is not so common " religions were made or got made by some philosophy of life. there may be different ways of thinking , but inherently all religion share one thought "god is one" . if every body's god is same then what is the problem.

general citizens in lack of knowledge gets fooled by politicians ,leaders (religious leaders) . history only tells us that every riot happened, were politically motivated.

it has nothing to do with religion , religions working area is only telling people how to live life , methods may be different for each religion .

i have never read in any of religious books that your way of method is best another way is mean, generally it is about god.

what about you people , what do you think ?

Humanity1011
Humanity1011

ProdLiberal,

You are filled with so much hate and that is the reason why you are supporting the killing of thousands of Muslims by the Hindu fundamentalist government led by Modi.

And for your information, Muslims didn't come to India as invaders. They liberated a large section of the population who were suppressed by upper caste Hindus. In hindu religion, people are born into multiple castes and lower caste hindus are treated  as subhuman. Belief in Karma meant that the suffering the lower caste hindus were subjected to, was because of their own sins in their past lives, and only way to get out of the suffering was to serve the upper caste hindus! In other words, religion was used as a pretext to continue suppression of a large section of the society.

Islam teaches that all humans are created equal and the best among are most righteous. The message of Islam was an eye opener for millions of people. It gave them a new meaning to their life, to believe in one God and be righteous.  Islam liberated a large swath of the Indian population from the clutches of caste system and un-touchability.

People continue to discover Islam and find peace and tranquility in their life.

Every soul is responsible for his or her actions. Whoever supporting injustice is bringing harm to himself.

I just hope you stop hating and find peace and be able to live in harmony.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

@Maaq:disqus 

Dear Maaq,

I don't give a damn whether you are an Indian Muslim or a Pakistani Muslim. Muslims are religious FANATICS!

Have you forgotten your cow cola BS which stopped after I fed you some CAMEL COLA!

What is vulgar in what i said?

It is fact that when Muslims invaded India beginning 1000 AD, they raped many Indian/Hindu women and Islam was forced on Hindus with sword in one hand and Koran in the other. This is a well known fact of Indian history.

So there is a very high chance/probability that you are an offspring of a Muslim man and a Hindu woman. Are you ashamed of it?

There is nothing vulgar about it.

Humanity1011
Humanity1011

In Gujarat, thousands of children and women were killed by Hindu fanatics under the pretext that a Muslim mob burned compartments in a train (subsequent inquiry proved that the fire that caused the incident was an accident and it had nothing to do with the mob that had gathered around the compartment to save one of their teenage girl who was kidnapped by the Hindu zealots in the train). It has been over a decade now and the victims still suffer. Muslims are not able to go back to their homes.

 Modi who couldn't provide basic law and order to the people was subsequently elected to office with a large majority; says a great deal about the sad state of democracy.

After a long struggle with justice system, justice is slowly arriving and this conviction is a step in the right direction.

Maaq
Maaq

Narendra Modi the mastermind of  2002 Gujarat riots is projected to be the next PM of India.  One can predict what future is holding for minorities, when reign of power is in the hands of a person who's objective is Hindutva overtly or covertly off course, all impure and less pure should be shudi to perfection even the fetus by catching hold of a pregnant woman and ripping her womb with a sword and then waving the fetus.

newmindmovement
newmindmovement

Did anyone find out who burned alive those 59 innocent hindus who were returning from their pilgrimage?  what happened to those perpetrators?  nothing.  this is the new india where a hindu can't even fight for his own brothers without getting life sentence while muslims go free and committ bombings and terror attacks everywhere.  this is a shame. 

qzeb
qzeb

 One should always think as human regardless of what religion or sect he/she belong , if others are wrong it does not make Modi right ,  it is disappointment to see most of the comment here are so illiterate.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

@NewAge2222:disqus 

NewAge MORON!

You have shown your TRUE COLORS by calling Hinduism a religion of Saitan.

Why isn't Islam a religion of Saitan?, if Saitan really exists, except in your STUPID brain. You seem to be a Muslim and considering that most Muslims in the world are highly uneducated, it is no wonder you believe in Saitan. That is what happens if you are educated in a Pakistani madrasa where nothing but Koran and hatred for other religions is preached. You are not NewAge2222, you are DarkAge2222 just like Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

About taking your lands, what land was taken from you by whom?

Muslims never belonged to the subcontinent. Muslims invaded the subcontinent and forcibly converted, raped and committed genocide in the Indian subcontinent since 1000 AD when Muslims started invading India. So you are in high probability an offspring of a Hindu mother raped by Muslims. 

If you want a Muslim land, go back to Saudi Arabia. No body is stopping you. All Muslims and Pakistanis can go and live in Saudi where all Muslims belong. The land in the subcontinent does not belong to you. Period!

NewAge2222
NewAge2222

Mr prowd: first of all you should know that Hindu is the religion of Saitan and Hindus are the generation of Saitan.

As you opinion above it shows the hatred message about muslim and hatred message only send by saitan and now u r sending, it direct means that you are from generation of saitan.

 

Islam says give life for your country and we are sacrificing our life for our country and you are blaming Islam, but what about you(Kafir) u r destroying our country funding the terrorist. Everywhere by force u are occuping our land, if we raise our voice against it and for our right then u said terrroist, Only u do double standards.

NewAge2222
NewAge2222

Mr prowd: first of all you should know that Hindu is the religion of Saitan and Hindus are the generation of Saitan.

As you opinion above it shows the hatred message about muslim and hatred message only send by saitan and now u r sending, it direct means that you are from generation of saitan.

 

Islam says give life for your country and we are sacrificing our life for our country and you are blaming Islam, but what about you(Kafir) u r destroying our country funding the terrorist. Everywhere by force u are occuping our land, if we raise our voice against it and for our right then u said terrroist, Only u do double standards.

Sandeep Singh
Sandeep Singh

Modi, that vile lowlife, is guilty in these riots as he was in the 1984 (Sikh) riots which took the lives of hundreds of thousands of sikhs. It's time we bring the Indian justice system into the 21st century and put these barbarians behind bars regardless of their race or religion or political association. India deserves better. 

Humanity1011
Humanity1011

 Apparently whatever religion you believe in, is not making you are

better person. You are trying to justify mass killing of children, women

and men by armed Hindu militants. Women were brutally raped, and burnt

alive along with their kids during the systematic attack against

Muslims.. whoever supporting crimes like this have no humanity at all

Humanity1011
Humanity1011

 Apparently whatever religion you believe in, is not making you are better person. You are trying to justify mass killing of children, women and men by armed Hindu militants. Women were brutally raped, and burnt alive along with their kids during the systematic attack against Muslims.. whoever supporting crimes like this have no humanity at all.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

“And for your information, Muslims didn't come to India as

invaders. They liberated a large section of the population who were suppressed

by upper caste Hindus. In hindu religion, people are born into multiple castes

and lower caste hindus are treated  as subhuman. Belief in Karma meant

that the suffering the lower caste hindus were subjected to, was because of

their own sins in their past lives, and only way to get out of the suffering

was to serve the upper caste hindus! In other words, religion was used as a

pretext to continue suppression of a large section of the society.”

Typical Islamic BS!

You don’t even have a clue about the caste system. Caste system was

there for a good purpose in the ancient times (5000BC when Hinduism was born).

Each person of a caste did a specific function in the society. The

Brahmins were the priestly class, the Kshatriyas were the ruling class, the Vaishyas

were the traders and the Sudras were the laborers. This was the way the society

was oraganized in many cultures whether they called it caste system or not. For

instance in Islam, the Wahhabis call everyone else an infidel including the

Shias, the Ismailis, the Alawaites etc etc. In fact the Wahhabis/Salafis even

go to the extent of killing them. This does not happen in any religion. Like in

all religions, people take advantage of their status, power and wealth and in

Hinduism also some people took advantage of the caste system and turned it to

their advantage. In Islam, as I mentioned earlier, it is in the form of

persecution of minorities and infidels.

“Islam teaches that all humans are created equal and the best

among are most righteous.”

Every religion preaches the same. Islam did not invent this. All

religions have this as a central concept. Your view of the world through an

Islamic lens makes you think Islam is better than other religions. You are

totally wrong. All religions are good. It is the INTOLERANCE of Islam towards

other religions that makes it an unacceptable religions in the 21st

century.

“Islam liberated a large swath of the Indian population from the

clutches of caste system and un-touchability. People continue to discover

Islam and find peace and tranquility in their life.”

You are wrong. Islam was forced on Hindus by the Islamic invaders.

In fact was forced on people all over the world where Islamic invaders went.

That is why Islam is at war with all religions of the world. That is

not the case with all other religions. You see the difference? Why don’t you

ask yourself one question? Why are Muslims at war with all other religions all over the world and other religions are not?

“I just hope you stop hating and find peace and be able to live in

harmony.”

I do not hate Islam but I do not like your DRACONIAN, terrorist, jihadist

life style. You stone women to death, you amputate arms of the people, you

behead people, you kill women in honor killings. Women are second class

citizens and slaves in Islam.

Preacherofhumanitysucks
Preacherofhumanitysucks

People were not under the illusion that muslims mob burn the train it is a fact you idiot that they burn they train. I bet if some one burns a train compartment full of muslim you bastards will kill millions and justify your act as a religious act. Don't talk of basic law, order and democracy that just sounds ironic from a muslim a.k.a mr humanity.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

If I start listing Islamic genocide and atrocities since the birth of Islam even the internet does not have enough space to hold the web pages. Where as what you wrote about Hindus is 10 lines at the most. See the difference?

Maaq
Maaq

Burning of Christians, destruction of  Churches in Goa.

Sikh Holocaust in 1984.

Demolition of Babri Mosques.

Gujarat Riots.

Recent killing of Muslims in Asaam are all proof  of the fact that minorities don't  have no rights for life and property because they are not pure.

Secularism and Democracy is just Fake notions to save Face.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

If India wanted Hindutva it would have happened at the time of partition. The fact that India has chosen the path of secularism and done a great job at it is a testament to Hindus for their tolerance of other religions UNLIKE PAKISTAN. 

You are talking about minorities in India? Take a look at what happens to minorities in all Muslim countries including Shias who are considered as infidels and minorities in the Sunni dominated Muslim countries. The history has recorded Islamic brutality towards minorities very well no one can deny it. BJP was in power in India before and India still remained secular.

Juan Garcia
Juan Garcia

 ****************************************************************************************

This is a message for all of you " ALL RELIGIONS HAVE MURDERED PEOPLE"

About 95% of all religions are worthless, brain-washing , self-serving, money-making bureaucracies   ***************

Humanity1011
Humanity1011

 ProdLiberal,You are filled with so much hate and that is the

reason why you are supporting the killing of thousands of Muslims by the

Hindu fundamentalist government led by Modi.

And for your information, Muslims didn't come to India as invaders.

They liberated a large section of the population who were suppressed by

upper caste Hindus. In hindu religion, people are born into multiple

castes and lower caste hindus are treated  as subhuman. Belief in Karma

meant that the suffering the lower caste hindus were subjected to, was

because of their own sins in their past lives, and only way to get out

of the suffering was to serve the upper caste hindus! In other words,

religion was used as a pretext to continue suppression of a large

section of the society.

Islam teaches that all humans are created equal and the best among

are most righteous. The message of Islam was an eye opener for millions

of people. It gave them a new meaning to their life, to believe in one

God and be righteous.  Islam liberated a large swath of the Indian

population from the clutches of caste system and un-touchability. People continue to discover Islam and find peace and tranquility in their life.

Every soul is responsible for his or her actions. Whoever supporting injustice is bringing harm to himself.

I just hope you stop hating and find peace and be able to live in harmony.

Maaq
Maaq

ProwdLiberal you are an Idiot Vulgar your upbringing reflects in your comments.

Juan Garcia
Juan Garcia

**************************************************************************************** This is a message for all of you " ALL RELIGIONS HAVE MURDERED PEOPLE"

About 95% of all religions are worthless, brain-washing , self-serving, money-making bureaucracies   ***************

Rajeev Sahadevan
Rajeev Sahadevan

Mr. Singh... dont make a joke out of yourself. Sometimes its wise to shut up rather than be called Kapil Sibal!!! SEriously The sikh brothers would be ashamed for the statement you just made!!!

dimukh
dimukh

Do you live on planet earth? He didn't have anything to do with 1984 riot. Get your facts together before posting your comment pape.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

You seem to conveniently forget the Sikhs in Canada and UK who supported Khalistan movement colluding with Pakistan and are the root cause of the 1984 riots. Learn to be objective not led by your emotional BS because you may be a Sikh.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

I believe in ALL religions. I respect ALL religions unlike Muslims who disrespect all religions other than Islam.

The point I am making is simple. Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews etc etc are reacting/retaliating to/against what Muslims do in the name of their religion. I am not in any way condoning what Hindu extremists or any other extremists have done. Muslims must respect all religions if they want to be respected. Respect is a two way street not one way.

Why is it so difficult for Muslims to say all religions are equal and all of them talk about God? It is not for a Muslim to judge others. Leave that to God.

If I am not a Muslim and if you believe I go to hell, so be it. Leave it for God to decide instead of Muslims persecuting them as Infidels.

BTW, I believe in God but not in any religion. All religions are man made stupidity. God is not stupid to create so many religions and cause so many deaths in the name of religions.

If you separate God from religion, then you truly understand God.

  

Humanity1011
Humanity1011

 Your hate and ignorance don't  have any boundaries. The version of Hinduism that you are preaching is the hindusim of Modi (who killed thousands of Muslims) ,Godse (hindu fundamentalist who killed Gandhi) and BJP.

"You don’t even have a clue about the caste system. Caste system was

there for a good purpose in the ancient times (5000BC when Hinduism was born)"

Caste system is well and alive even today. un-touchability and caste system exist in india with all its strength. Even in US, Indians go with the caste system. People even get killed if they marry outside caste system.

"Equality in Hinduidm"

Hindusim doesn't belive in equality of man. Brahmin is the supreme one followed by Kshtriya, Vayshya and Shudra. As per Vedas, Brahmins were created from the head of Brahma, Kshatriya from arms of Brahma, Vayshya from his belley, and Shudra (lower caste) from the feet of Brahma. So Hinduism proclaims that by birth, shudra is inferior to other castes. And only  way Shudra can get salvation (Moksha) is by serving superior castes.

Beware that the majority of Hindus in India are Shudra and Dalits ( who are actually outside the 4 caste systems and inferior even to Shudras).

Anybody who goes to Indian villages can see how caste system impacts everyday lives on Indians. People know each other by their castes, and they don't even allow inferior castes to drink water from the same wells.

It is in this context of multitude of gods and castes that Islam came to India. People became Muslims because it gave them dignity.

Islam teaches that all humans are created equal and the best among are

most righteous. The message of Islam was an eye opener for millions of

people. It gave them a new meaning to their life, to believe in one God

and be righteous

There is a well known Hindua Matra "Lokho Samastho Sukhino Bhavantu". the meaning of this mantra and its preceding lines are roughly like.

'Kings take care of Brahmins. Brahmins and Cows are happy. And the whole world is happy'.

So in the view of hardliner hindus, if the Brahmins (upper caste Hindu) and cows are happy, then the whole world is happy. In other words, only brahmins and cows mattered, and everything else dont count.

Even now, riots break out if cows are slaughtered for food, especially if it is done by some one from minorities. I wish Hindus give some consideration for their fellow human being even if they are not Hindus.

It is the same kind of hatred Modi and ProwdLiberal shares.

I just hope you stop hating and find peace and be able to live in harmony.

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

If I start listing Islamic genocide and atrocities since the birth of Islam even the internet does not have enough space to hold the web pages. Where as what you wrote about Hindus is 10 lines at the most. See the difference?

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

Typical Islamic BS!

You liberated Hindus? LOL!

The Hindu caste system was different than what you describe it to be. The caste system was based on the profession or the job that you did. The Brahims were priestly class, the Kshatriya were the ruling class, the Vaishayas were the trading class and the Sudras were the labor class. There was noting wrong with the caste system. Like in all societies people take advantage of anything that they can for their own benefit and the Hindu caste system was misused by some. Not very different than the Wahhabi of Saudi Arabia have taken advantage of their status and imposed their own (DRACONIAN) version of Islam on others. Same with the Ayatollahs of Iran. Doesn't Islam condemn Shias, Ismailis, Hurifiya, Alawaites etc etc? In fact these people are killed by the Wahhabis mercilessly. In Hinduism other castes were never killed. They were probably ostracized. 

If Islam is so great, why is Islam societies afraid to give freedom of religion to all people in the country. For instance, in most Islamic countries speaking anything against the religion is banned. People are put in prisons. A Muslim is not allowed to convert out of the religion. Why? A human being should be allowed to follow any religion he or she would like to follow. Why the Islamic societies do not accept the freedom of choice for an individual. Why do you have to stone women to death? Why don't you let women drive cars? Why doesn't Islam respect all other religions? In Hinduism if a person converts to Christianity, he or she is never KILLED as in Islam. 

You are talking about some castes are treated as sun human in Hinduism? Not all. In fact in Islam a WOMAN IS SUB HUMAN. The way you treat women is unbelievable.

The problem with Islam is it is still in the dark ages!

Islam badly needs SEPARATION of MOSQUE and STATE to become a 21st century religion. The religious clergy, the mullahs should not run your life. They run your life by telling you all cock and bull stories about heaven and hell and if you kill infidels you go to heaven and get to sleep with hundred thousand virgins and otherwise you will burn in hell kind of BS! Because Muslims are generally not well educated, the mullahs keep you in the dark ages with their brain washing.

BTW, you talk about Hinduism, Hinduism and Buddhism are the only religions with a high grade philosophy, intellectualism and wisdom. That is why Hinduisms is revered by lot of well educated westerners. Buddhism, which originated from Hinduism, spread to China, Japan and many other eastern Asian countries. Do you see the difference? Buddhism was not spread by anyone or an army with sword in one hand and a religious book in the other as in the case of Islam. 

You are very IGNORANT about Hinduism/Buddhism. It is a religion for highly intelligent and wise people who are allowed to question the religion and even God to learn about God not for uneducated societies of Islam.

 So all this bull about liberating Hindus from castes is a bunch of bull that makes you feel good about being a Muslim who keeps four wives as slaves at home. LOL!

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

Maaq your great great great great grand mother must be a Hindu.

Go to ancestry.com and check. You will be surprised and will stop hating Hindus. All Muslims in the subcontinent should do the same to learn that you have Hindu blood in you, freaking morons!

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

You are a MORON!

Yes upbringing with Muslims makes one learn about what Islam and Muslims are all about. 

If you as a Muslim do not want to be disliked, then respect all religions, stop killing the minorities. The first step towards this is separation of church/mosque and state. If religion rules your life then life will be miserable. Ask your Mullahs to stay in the mosques and preach peace not hatred and not run societies like in Iran and Saudi Arabia.

In short come into the 21st century!

Maaq
Maaq

Sikhs are proud nation, No Bani preaches to be foot soldier of  Hindu, India owe to Sikhs for its freedom all that what Sikhs did for India they got 1984 in return. By any mean and respect Sikhs are a nation who deserve to have their Independent home land.  Road is long, journey is hard but destination is insight.

delhi12345
delhi12345

 I'm with Sandeep, and I'm neither a Sikh nor a Muslim!  For a Prowd Liberal, you appear anything BUT Liberal.  Your comments are sweeping and grossly unfair.  You seem to forget that even if there are extremists in Islam, Sikhism or whatever, the vast majority of people who get attacked are completely innocent.  Those politicians are 'supposed to be' (joke) in power as representatives of the people, and they SHOULD uphold law and order.  In truth they are there to benefit themselves and their gangs of filthy supporters, and they warp the law to the maximum.  India so much needs to clean up it's act.  We're all so sick of the deceit, greed, hate and hypocrisy.

Maaq
Maaq

Dear PLiberal please stop running around like a head cut chicken, for a sec i thought you gone crazy. I am scared you getting some Heart attack or so, calm down. I am not sure about your education level, I may beg your pardon to advise you to talk with logic not vulgarity by that you make your self laughing stock. I live in Texas US and belong to Indian Muslim family from Jalandhar Punjab and know Sikhs being our neighbors very well.

Maaq
Maaq

Dear Rajeev your comment are disappointing you should remember, Sikhs joined India,  promised of having greater autonomy in Punjab, but they were betrayed when Punjab was divided in to 3 parts (1966). Sikhs were systematically removed from key posts and a campaign of discrimination and humiliation was started against them in order to force them out of there ancestral home lands laws were introduce to grab land owned by Sikhs, raising voice and concerns  were dealt with sheer Brutality 1984 even Golden Temple was attacked and demolished, from there on a campaign of genocide was started to finish Sikhs off. Hundreds of thousands have been killed and many more forced to migrate.  Story of Sikhs from Punjab is a great 

Tragedy  of  Back Stab and Betrayal by Hindu, may be the for the sake of Hindutva in India.

Rajeev Sahadevan
Rajeev Sahadevan

Politics is a strange thing, mixing it up with religeon is another one thing. Now if you look carefully it wasnt sikh Vs Hindus in 1984... It was indira gandhi vs Sikh... in other words It was Congress Vs Sikhs... Hindus were just used to play the cards. Commoners like us will take years to understand the political mind of experienced leaders (so called) like That in the gandhi family. So dont regret the 1984 incident with what you did for the freedom. What you did for india's freedom was for you. What you fought in 1984 was political 

rahul srivastava
rahul srivastava

dear maaq 

you hate hindu religion , but i tell you muslims kings rule india for hundred of years , some of them were good , some of them like aurangjeb destroyed hundreds of hindu temple , which is in history ,kutub minar was built by destroying 22 hindu temples , every body who is student of history knows that .still kutub minar is there , nobody in hindu mejority nation tried to bring kutub minar down .when pakistan was made ,our leaders made a decision not to make india hindu state ,they could have done that, but they did'nt , we chose to live with muslims and other religion .baring babri masjid which got destroyed by some fanatics , there is not single incident of masque being destroyed in the history of india . there are lot of incidents in history which suggest intolerance of Muslim and christian leaders in India and other parts of the world.but hindus does not hate muslims for things happened in past riots happen due to evil politicians not because of hindu public .muslims who indian fall pray to the proganda of enemy of india , it  is a duty of educated muslim to teach their not so educated muslims .

rahul srivastava
rahul srivastava

i am really sorry for people who differentiate people from their religion and caste , it is for illiterate and uneducated people to do , who have no knowledge why religion were formed ?

 

but i feel pity for those youth despite being educated talk like thrash , use your mind .

religion is all about worshiping god, how to live life, there may be different methods , but beyond that nothing else .

when people from different religion living in india from hundreds of year , why not now .

politicians , evil people use religion to create difference in common people mind .

pakistan was made due to narrow thinking of jinnah , what is happening in pakistan right now is every one to see ?

you know there are lot of varaiety in muslim religion too , 

one day shiyas in pakistan will stand up and say look we want another country , sufis say we are not safe here in pakistan , ahmadiyas say we need another country to protect us from sunni , what will happen ? pakistan will break into pieces.

but if they sit together and bury their differences , it will make pakistan strong .

Maaq
Maaq

Dear Rahul either you are not very educated or been a fool living in MahanBharata paradise for your info The Indian

Punjab was

divided in 1966 with the formation of the new states of Haryana and Himachal Pradesh, as well as the current state of Punjab. Punjab is

the only state in India with a majority Sikh population.  Being a close friend i can tell you: Sikhs are very proud nation by any mean with a long history and they have every right to have Independent home land and will get one not very long.

rahul srivastava
rahul srivastava

i don't know from where you get these false facts , after partition there is no devision of punjab state , people who wanted kahlistan were enemy of india , after partition of pakistan we could not allow another country to be made from india , there are millions of sikhs lives in india peacefully , there is no demand of another country from them.

for your knowledge sikhs are part of hindu religion , many of them parctice hindu tradition .

narrow thinking of religion does not apply on india , we are most humble country in the world , we respect every religion , there are some black sheeps in every society so does in ours.

caste system is a problem , but we are moving toward eradicating it , hate give birth to more hate , hate gives birth to distruction , country like pakistan suffering just because there is lot of hate still exist .

Sumit
Sumit

in your dreams son. In my understanding, majority of sikhs in india have the intelligence, patriotism and loyality to stick together as a nation. I believe in no religion or god but what i do believe is in the unity of that nation. if it ever came to point where it's body was threatened even in a slight manner, i can assure you there are hundreds of millions of citizen like me who would willingly volunteer to fight not to defend Hinduism or some shit but the very soul of that sacred land. I hope eventually you find the conviction to direct your anger and energy to fight the issues in India that caused it, and that country definitely has high quantity of uneducated scum who cause hate and violence and you will find citizen from all across standing right next to you in that endeavour.

Maaq
Maaq

Dear Rahul like your idea of mixing apple with oranges but unfortunately your logic is poor than a juggler. I would say some one is blind if he can not see the writing on the wall especially in upper case.  I would suggest you to venture out of your little confused state of mind Visit US, UK,  Canada  you will find out how Khalsa Sardar treat you after being forcibly expelled from their mother land.  Can you please educate me the basis for the division of Punjab and the laws introduced to grab land from Sikh community. 

rahul srivastava
rahul srivastava

hello , i am a hindu , please tell me do u i have a different god ? as a matter of fact i have the same god which Muslims preaches.

you may say what ever you want , there is only one god .

what happened in gujrat were terrible , but it was not about hindus and muslims , it was all political.

general citizen don't have time to kill each other , they have to feed their child , educate them, be it muslim or hindu or any other religion.

and for your knowledge there is no chance that another nation carve out from india . 

making pakistan was terrible mistake , Indians are smart enough not to let that happen.

we know we are not perfect , but as time goes on we will make progress , we will show world how in india Muslims , Hindus , christian , Sikhs  live happily and peacefully .

for example the great actors shahrukh , amir , salman found success and love in hindu mejority nation , for you it should be surprise , abul pakir kalam was our beloved president .

i think i would be enough for you .

ProwdLiberal
ProwdLiberal

BS from a Pakistani Muslim!

Remember that Sikhs are lot closer to Hindus than Muslims.

It appears that you do not have a clue about Hindu and Sikh history. A Sikh was the eldest son in a Hindu family who was made a Sikh to fight Muslim invaders. So no matter how much Muslims/Pakistanis want to divide India it did not and will not work.

On the contrary, India does not and have never done anything to cause the brutal rift between Sunnis and Shias. I love the way you guys kill each other in the name of religion. Good riddance of religious fanatics from this world.

Fewer you guys are the better it is for the mankind.