As Tibetans Burn Themselves to Protest Chinese Rule, Communists in Beijing Stress Happiness in Tibet

  • Share
  • Read Later
Action Press / ZUMA PRESS

Hundreds of monks and Tibetan exiles hold a vigil in Dharamsala, India, Oct. 26, 2012.

On Nov. 9, thousands of Tibetan students gathered in the historic monastery town of Rebkong to protest Chinese rule over the restive Tibetan plateau, where nearly 70 Tibetans have lighted themselves on fire since March 2011 in gruesome displays of desperation. Two days before, five Tibetans had self-immolated in three different parts of the high plateau, among them three teenage monks and one young mother from Rebkong (known as Tongren in Chinese). Two other Tibetans burned themselves in Rebkong this week, according to overseas Tibetan groups.

Separately, in Xining, the provincial capital of China’s western Qinghai province, where many Tibetans live, hundreds of Tibetan students joined together on the evening of Nov. 9 for a candlelight vigil to honor the protesters who, as flames engulfed their bodies, invariably shouted for an end to Chinese repression and the return of the Dalai Lama, Tibet’s spiritual leader who fled into exile in India after a failed uprising against Chinese rule more than five decades ago.

(PHOTOS: Tibetans Protest Hu Jintao in India)

The same day, on the edge of Beijing’s Tiananmen Square, Communist Party delegates gathered to discuss the situation in Tibet. The afternoon meeting was part of the 18th Party Congress, a once-in-five-years communist leadership confab that began on Nov. 8, a day after the record five self-immolations took place. (A sixth fiery protest occurred on the Thursday the Party Congress first convened.) The site of the Tibetan-delegation meeting was a room in the Great Hall of the People, adorned with brightly hued murals of Tibetans happily harvesting barley, frolicking in green fields under a rainbow and even sitting astride a horse while wearing a People’s Liberation Army uniform. The room was signposted in misspelled English as the “Tiebet Room.”

In filed a line of men in dark suits, some of Tibetan ethnicity but many others from China’s Han ethnic majority. (A Tibetan has never filled the top Communist Party leadership post in the Tibetan Autonomous Region.) A handful of women in traditional Tibetan dress, resplendent with coral and turquoise jewelry and geometrically patterned long skirts, sat down and proceeded to utter not a single word for the entire 90-minute session. Instead, they occupied their time taking pictures of one another, slowly writing notes while the senior cadres droned on or, in the case of one elderly female delegate, nodding off when the flood of socialist verbiage became too soporific to resist. Two broad-shouldered Tibetans wore the cowboy hats associated with the Khampas, the eastern Tibetans who most fiercely resisted the People’s Liberation Army troops when the Chinese marched in and declared Tibetan regions part of the new People’s Republic. Chinese television crews crowded around them, and sure enough the Tibetan delegates showed up on state television that evening as examples of the ethnically harmonious spirit of the communist brotherhood.

The meeting began with an extensive paean to the keynote work report that China’s outgoing leader Hu Jintao had given the day before at the 18th Party Congress, a 100-minute treatise in which he outlined the accomplishments of his decade in power. We were regaled with just how perfectly Hu’s concept of “scientific development” suited the needs of Tibet. (Scientific development appears to be a theory in which a scientific and pragmatic approach to governance will lead to a sustainable and harmonious society, hardly the most groundbreaking of political ideologies.) Delegates at the Tibet meeting referred to one another as “comrade.” Not a word of Tibetan was spoken, only Mandarin, the Chinese dialect that is referred to in mainland China as “the common language.”

(MORE: As Tibetans Mark ‘National Uprising Day,’ Tensions Simmer on the High Plateau)

Those of us in the foreign press corps, who were watching the proceedings from a roped-off area, received our history lesson. “The last 10 years was the period when the people in Tibet have gained the most benefits,” we were told by Padma Choling, the chairman of the Tibetan Autonomous Region. The accomplishments of the communist government in Tibet were examined in voluminous detail. Airports have been built, schooling made free. Complimentary medical checks are being offered for monks and nuns, who can now watch the state-run news on televisions powered by new power lines. Kilometers upon kilometers of new roads have unfurled across the Tibetan moonscape.

The government has built greenhouses, shower facilities and garbage dumps for thousands of Tibetan Buddhist monasteries or nunneries with more than 20 clerics. Government health officials have given crucial information to nuns about how women’s bodies work. All Tibetan farmers and herders will be gifted “safe new houses” by 2013, according to Padma Choling. The urban unemployment rate is only 2.69% in the Tibetan Autonomous Region, reported a Han official in charge of the local Organization Department.

Tibetan capital Lhasa, we were instructed, has been voted the happiest city in China four times in a five-year period. “Happiness is dynamic, happiness needs to be experienced,” said Che Dalha, the Communist Party secretary for Lhasa. “Today’s Lhasa is just like what they sing in the song: The sky in Lhasa is the most blue/ The clouds in Lhasa are the most white/ The water in Lhasa is the clearest/ The air in Lhasa is the freshest/ The sunshine in Lhasa is the brightest/ And the people in Lhasa are the happiest.”

(PHOTOS: Funeral of an Exiled Tibetan Activist)

The word happy was a mantra during the meeting, perhaps only rivaled in usage by Hu’s concept of scientific development. (Conveniently, scientific development is what helps make Tibetans feel particularly happy.) Nowhere was it mentioned that many Tibetans feel as though they have not profited equally from the region’s economic expansion, as an influx of Han migrants flood the region and snap up some of the best jobs. No cadre at the Great Hall of the People admitted that many of the new roads are designed to truck out Tibet’s bountiful and largely untapped natural resources.

Even as the new greenhouses and showers in monasteries were hailed, no one talked about the culture of fear that exists in Tibetan Buddhist institutions, where spies ferret out anti-Chinese sentiment or catch people illegally worshipping the Dalai Lama, whom the Chinese government considers an enemy of the state. Tibetan education in local schools has declined dramatically over the past five years, and monks are being forced to imbibe socialist propaganda because they are also, as Losang Gyaltsen, vice chairman of the Tibetan Autonomous Region, noted, “grassroots citizens” who are part of “Tibetan Buddhism adapted to socialist society.”

The assembled journalists were told by Padma Choling that we were “warmly welcomed to go visit Tibet, to feel the development and changes in Tibet.” Barely stifled giggles erupted in the press gallery. Practically no foreign journalists have been given official permission to visit Tibet since the months following a 2008 eruption of chaos when some Han and even more Tibetans were killed in internecine riots and the violently suppressed Tibetan protests that followed.

(MORE: Tibet’s Next Incarnation)

It wasn’t until the question-and-answer period — in which delegates gamely took a few questions from the foreign media, as well as softball queries from members of the Chinese state press — that the self-immolations even came up. Losang Gyaltsen read his answer from a sheaf of paper, a signal that he was expecting the issue to come up, even if it didn’t merit any mention during the working group’s official meeting.

“We think the reasons for the self-immolation incidents are varied. Some of the cases were caused by personal reasons. But we also see that some of the self-immolation cases were incited and planned by separatist groups abroad. The overseas Tibetan separatist forces hype all these incidents. They call these heroic acts and they consider the people who set themselves on fire heroes. They extremely beautify and incite such extreme behavior. As we all know, in the laws of a lot of countries, instigating and inducing others to commit suicide is a crime itself. In the laws of China, this is criminal behavior … But the overseas Tibetan separatist forces and the Dalai clique sacrifice other people’s lives to reach their ulterior political motives.”

Che Dalha, Communist Party secretary for Lhasa, added his take:

“Lhasa is a city of happiness. We won’t allow anybody to make trouble in it, to set themselves on fire. But indeed, supported by overseas forces and for other reasons, we are facing people who came from other areas and have tried to set themselves on fire in Lhasa. As of last year, everybody who enters Tibet needs to bring their IDs. We moved our checkpoints outside of Lhasa city to prevent people from going to the city to self-immolate … I read in the papers that in the West, in the U.S. and Japan, there are a lot of people who set themselves on fire or commit suicide. There are a lot of people who have fatally shot themselves with a gun, jumped in a river, self-immolated or hanged themselves. Only a few cases have happened in the Tibetan Autonomous Region. So some of the media have ulterior motives. It’s not necessary to spread propaganda.”

The Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government in exile, based in the Indian hill station of Dharamsala, have said repeatedly that they are not orchestrating the self-immolations, 56 of which have occurred this year. It is true that the bulk of these burning protests have not occurred in the Tibetan Autonomous Region, which is a far smaller entity than the cultural sphere of Tibetan influence across western China. Significant populations of Tibetans live in Qinghai, Sichuan and Gansu provinces. The self-immolations have occurred mostly in Sichuan’s Kham foothills but are now increasingly flaring in the high plains of Gansu and Qinghai. Only eight self-immolations have occurred in the Tibetan Autonomous Region. Although earlier protests were carried out by monks, nuns and former clerics, recent burnings have proliferated among laypeople — a disturbing sign of radicalization among Tibetans.

Such distinctions and trends, however, weren’t analyzed in the Great Hall of the People’s Tiebet Room. Instead, the language was both stern and hopeful, as in Padma Choling’s words:

“Over the last 10 years, we have always persisted in ‘stability overrides all thought.’ We have put stability as our first task, as the first responsibility of the government. The key point of stability is to improve people’s lives, so we have implemented a series of measures and policies for the people. We can say that currently Tibet is implementing stabilization and is on the way to long-term stability. We are determined, and we have confidence to build Tibet into a better place. In a word, right now the social system in Tibet has achieved a historical leap; economic development has achieved a historical result; social undertakings have achieved historical progress; people’s lives have achieved a historical improvement and all [ethnic] nationalities in Tibet have achieved historical unity.”

After 90 minutes, the media were ushered out of the Tibet-delegation meeting room. Outside, on Tiananmen Square, firefighters in bright orange-red uniforms stood like stern-faced pillars. Each was armed with a fire extinguisher. Near them, a loop of propaganda played on a giant screen, showcasing happy citizens of various ethnicities glorifying the People’s Republic of China.

With reporting by Chengcheng Jiang / Beijing

44 comments
shellyslader
shellyslader

Wow, that is an extreme form of protest. I don't understand the culture in China or everything that is going on over there but I can say I am grateful to live in the United States right now. I think we sometimes don't realize how good we have it over here, even with all the problems we have.

Shelly Slader |  http://www.cityfence.ca

MrKnowItAll
MrKnowItAll

Make whatever points you want, but, in my opinion, someone (many someones) wouldn't BURN themselves to DEATH if they were not being screwed over pretty bad.  PS. Propaganda that covers up acts of cruelty is evil.  Seems to me like there are a lot of evil people on this post. 

my-new-life-in-asia
my-new-life-in-asia

To Western people who argue Tibet should be free: issues of national integrity are too complex and subjective.

Native Americans could argue that all settlers who live in the US took their land away from them. Catalan people can argue they don't belong to Spain. Palestinians can argue that Israel's foundation was unjust. Issues of politics depend on who is judging. That's why one should have respect for all sides. 

I can understand the arguments of those who are in favour of an independent Tibet - although I think that such a vision is unfeasible due to the political reality. But I am absolutely against the China-bashing that's been going on for a long time, where people confuse past and present. China has changed in the past decades, as much as the US, which were a country of racial segregation, has changed since those times. Besides, the hatred against China is often the result of the fear Western people have of this new strong state. A fear many seem unable to cope with.

my-new-life-in-asia
my-new-life-in-asia

I would like Western newspapers to interview both pro-Chinese and anti-Chinese Tibetans to understand what people think over there. No Western country has ever disputed the claim that Tibet is part of China under international law. Both the Republic of China under Chiang Kai-Shek and the People's Republic of China have always viewed Tibet as part of China. The US government assured Chiang Kai-Shek that they didn't dispute Chinese claims over Tibet. (http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/bureaus/eap/950907WiedemannTibet.htmlhttp://www.yorku.ca/sendicot/Tibet.pdf). 

Is therefore this claim that Tibet should be independent justified? Though I sympathize with all the people that suffer under China and would like to see an independent Tibet as a country, I wonder if this is the view of the majority of Tibetans. And even if it were the view of the majority of Tibetans, how can Chinese sovereignty be in any way annulled by any power outside of China? It would be as though one argued that Tirol is not part of Italy or Scotland or Northern Ireland are not part of the UK. What would we say if Chinese politicians came to the West and began discussing territorial disputes?  

EamCalmaPan
EamCalmaPan

Wow absolutely breath taking it seems the Chinese Communist Party Propaganda Department has unlimited budget not only in controlling online expressions in China but also flood English media outside of China whenever there is an article on China.  Welcome dear 50 cents WUMAO to an online community where you do not need to be fear of sensorship.

EamCalmaPan
EamCalmaPan

The article like many English article on Tibet ignores the fact all the problems are caused by the Chinese Communist Party.  By keep using the word "Chinese" instead of "Chinese Communist Party" or "Chinese Communist Government" or more neutral phrase like "Beijing government", the article gave people an impression that the Han Chinese and the Tibetan always have conflicts.  In fact no central Chinese governments had problems with Tibetans till the Chinese Communist sent troops in Tibet in 1950s.  All the governments before the communists did not interfer with Tibetan affair.  They always rubber stamped the selection of Dalai Lama unlike the Chinese Communist wants to pick someone loyal to the Communist Party.  The Chinese Communist Party also the root of any ethnic conflicts because it moved huge population of Han Chinese into Tibet to create tension.  The Communist Party will send anyone to jail for expressing personal opinion that does not glorify Communist Party regardless if they are Tibetan or Chinese.

YangKang
YangKang

If we have been convinced that Dalai Lama is the master mind behind those self-immolations, then I guess the issue has become rather simple: when can we eradicate that evil root?

lorenzothegringo
lorenzothegringo

Looks like the Chinese are doing to the Tibetans now what the US did to the Indians long ago - Take their land, enslave them or make them insignificant, and steal their natural resources.  Doesn't make either one of them right.  But in the real world, the mightiest rule.  Just because we want those in power to be fair and compassionate doesn't require them to be so.  If they want to be evil; they will be evil. Without remorse.

woktoss
woktoss

China rule ain't as bad as the western media portray them to be... people fear what they don't understand... and they slander what they fear... 

i've lived in many cities throughout eastern and western china for years now... for the most part, life in the mainland resonant truer to my inner being than living in the superficial pop culture of the States... before throwing rocks, have the courage to immerse yourself in said culture for a few years... don't just be a herd of baseless media scrutiny.

also, religious fanatics who set themselves on fire should only deserve a flicker of respect and attention of rational thinkers in the modern era... the Chinese government do not suppress Tibetan Buddhism like American politics suppress the voice of Atheism. 

forrestmillettech1030
forrestmillettech1030

it's difficult to judge all of the facts.because all of thing we learn through social media sometimes is wrong ,sometime is right.

By the way ,We are Millettech company and a professional ITcompany in Shanghai and we've been in this field for more than 6 years and offer services including web design and development 、web hostingwebsite maintenancedomain name registrationsearch engine registrationsearch engine optimizatione-commercecreative designlogo design & corporate identityVR and 3D Animation3D panoramic virtual tourgraphic designsoftware offshore outsourcing

+86-021-68880576millettech@gmail.com

rorywong654
rorywong654

You know how many people killed themself across China and USA everyday. If the number is less in USA compare to China,I killed myself to make up the number in China in order to make USA number looks good.

peterjohn
peterjohn

When The British invaded Tibet they claimed the justification that the monks kept the common poor under a cruel regime of superstition and fear. The monks were fat and rich while the poor had nothing. The people of Tibet were forbidden to speak to outsiders, and foreigners were not allowed in. Tibet was regarded as in the stone age,and the mumbo jumbo of the monks kept the poor in ignorance. The British while ruling India had stamped out such religious madness and would have done the same in Tibet but failed.Why is the USA not full of young people setting themselves on fire because the Pope is not the president? The USA would never allow any such  religion to operate on peoples minds.  The young people of the USA have free thought and one can only guess what superstitious madness is forced into vulnerable people's minds to cause them to commit suicide  The problem hear is not of Chinese making but religious indoctrination that is not allowed in the US. China wants to give the Tibetans the same chances that people have in the USA.                                                                                                                             When the Russians(asked in by the Afghan government) tried to stop religious fanatics ruling Afghanistan then the US portrayed the Russians as villains and helped the Taliban gain power.Has Time Magazine forgotten that ?  A lady journalist in an Atlanta newspaper wrote of the cruel treatment of the forgotten women in Afghanistan after the Russians had left                                                                                                                                  I watched Voice of America TV in my friends house in China We saw very offensive and insulting anti Iranian stuff. Also a report on the Island dispute between Japan China and Taiwan. My Chinese friend watches V.O.A. TV quite often and asked me why much of it is anti Chinese.Everyone in China watches American basketball,and English football,David Beckham posters advertise cell phones (though they may not have asked David) they also use basketball star pictures to advertise (probably didnt ask the players about it),  they see street  musicians doing  Michael Jackson stuff, they all go to KFC and Macdonalds, They admire and know all about the West. It is the Americans who are indoctrinated and kept in ignorance. One of the tragedies apart from young people and mothers being led into suicide by religious lunatics, is that while China admires and bases its modernization on the  West,the West is totally ignorant of China. China has serious faults and problems such as no one obeys the law, Everyone seems to be doing business quite illegally and a Westerner would say they need much more law enforcement, while the West is told the country is heavily controlled. In fact it is too much of a free for all.    

nhautamaki
nhautamaki

This article is long on judgment and short on solutions.  Just what is the current Chinese government supposed to do about Tibet anyway?  Get to work on a time machine so they can change history and prevent Mao from coming to power in the first place?  It's a wonderful thought, but unfortunately impossible, so the present day government is left to do with Tibet what it has done with the rest of the country: attempt to fix an unfixable problem; attempt to recover from the greatest nightmare of the 20th century.  Personally I think they're doing an admirable job and I haven't seen a single realistic suggestion that is better than what they are doing.

It's not a lie that the central government has poured billions into constructing Tibetan infrastructure and improving their basic facilities, including education.  Is that a bad thing?  How twisted has the issue become when we are cheering against infrastructure development and education?

Are the Tibetans unhappy?  Sure they are; there's no doubt that the Chinese are destroying their culture brick by brick and that they are getting left behind in the culture that replaces it.  Because the culture that is replacing their old religious and traditional way of life is a culture designed to compete in the 21st century.  Unfortunately, there is very little room left in the world for a traditional culture such as theirs.  Cultures and societies that can't adapt to the 21st century will inevitably be wiped out sooner or later; or be stuck in a cycle of poverty, like Nepal or Bhutan.

So what is China supposed to do?  Grant Tibet total autonomy?  But why stop there?  Why not Xinjiang?  Why not Sichuan and Qinghai?  Why not Inner Mongolia?  Yes, you think, it would be wonderful if China just ceded over half its landmass and 90% of its remaining natural resources to hostile separatist regimes.  How convenient that would be for China's rivals, regional and world wide.  But that is as unrealistic as the time machine.  And even if it weren't, would the average people of those regions really be better off?  Are the peoples of Nepal, Bhutan, Mongolia, or the central Asian 'Stans better off than the Chinese people?  Not really.  China is a growing and dynamic country that is providing an ever improving quality of life for its people.  Its regional neighbors to the west are poverty stricken and stagnant.  China may not be perfect but its better than the alternatives.

So what about the unhappy Tibetans?  The Chinese attitude is these are mostly brainwashed youths who are fighting against progress by suicide.  I'm inclined to agree; there is plenty of opportunity for ethnic Tibetans, or any ethnic peoples in China.  They are given very preferential treatment.  The reason they can't compete with the Chinese is simple: they don't work as hard and aren't as culturally adapted to the 21st century.  So is the best solution really to just allow them to remain in the 19th century?  China is actually trying to change that; to educate them, to get them caught up on what it takes to compete in the modern, global world.  That's hardly a bad thing imo.  The cultural mores and values that China promotes are things like hard work, meritocracy, science, economic literacy, technological advancement, and social unity.  There are Tibetans who don't want to play along, of course, and I can understand them.  But at the same time, lighting yourself on fire and/or encouraging others to light themselves on fire is not the path to progress and happiness.  The world has changed since the rule of the Llamas, like it or not.

I'm sure some in the Chinese government would rather be able to deal with the Tibetan problem the way we dealt with our own Aboriginal issue: destroy their culture with alcohol, disease, and straight up genocide until the aboriginal population is reduced to a tiny faction and herded onto small, unimportant reservations, but unfortunately for that plan, the Chinese have to deal with their problem in the 21st century, not the 19th, so that's no longer really an option.  As far as realistic 21st century solutions go, I really can't see a better way for either the Chinese or the Tibetans but to keep on keeping on.

DongYongSheng
DongYongSheng

I urge  everyone to make a trip to Tibet to see for yourself whether common Tibetans are really suffering as what everyone is being told. Western countries abandoned religious regime for the happiness of common man. Why on earth you are stressing that returning to Dalai Lama's religious rule is for good? Dalai Lama is a just politician with a great smile who can sell DiaoYu island for the sake of Japanese support.

rangzen_rolang
rangzen_rolang

I can only imagine what the Tibetans are feeling - desperation, fear and hopelessness. To burn oneself is the ultimate form of desperation. I agree with the other posters that Tibet was an independent country which is currently brutally occupied by China. Ever since the invasion, China has killed 1.2 million Tibetans and has destroyed plundering more than 6,500 Tibetan monasteries. The Chinese are now carrying out their "final solution" on the Tibetans through demographic genocide and by denying the Tibetans their culture, language and religion.

GaryMcCray
GaryMcCray

Yeah right, the Tibetans are just thrilled to be under Chinese control.

A completely independent and strongly religious country that the Chinese have no respect for whatsoever.

What more could the Tibetans want than to be abused and suppressed by completely unsympathetic Chinese occupiers.

The British, the Russians and even the US have pretty much figured out that running roughshod over occupied countries has some serious down sides.

Maybe the Chinese will figure it out eventually too.

Sam1000
Sam1000

Hannah Beech's report on Tibetan's grim situation and somewhat insightful report is interesting. As observer and follower of intense restive area of historical Tibetan area is nothing but undeclared martial law in the last a few years. Even under such a fear and militarized zone massive protesting against the communist Chinese regime is still going on under a such lurid threat from the Chinese government for any attempt to revolt or even a peaceful demonstration against China. In this report there are many points made by the Chinese government, cadres and Chinese puppets including Tibetans, these comments are made by hand-picked by the communist regimes, we can go easily point by point on these distorted, totally made up statics, extravagant claims mixed with propaganda is nothing new to the outside world and can proven wrong, specially people familiar with Tibetan situation. Just to let the readers know, right now this week alone there had been at least 8 self immolation, there were 5 on Nov 7th, 2012. Now the total self immolation is 68 as of Nov 10th 2012. which indicate that Tibetan inside are desperate and they are willing to burn themselves for their cause and wanted to inspire others and let the world know that draconian Chinese Policy is driving more younger generations towards drastic measures. Tibet and Tibetan people need help and world must understand that Tibetans inside and outside are united and want to drive the Chinese communist regime out of their country

MargaritaHinksoni
MargaritaHinksoni

@YangKang have we been convinced? i haven't seen the proof. what i have seen over and over ad nauseum is the chinese official speak that makes no sense at all. 

jackinbox
jackinbox

The exile Tibetan community has been using white man's remorse for what they did to the native people to its maximal effect. But the real situation is very different.

The old Tibetan system has no parallel in Western culture. It is like a region ruled by Jesus Christ himself. He had to be kept away in order for a secular government to operate at all. The Dali Lama was the head of government up to just a few months ago. Now, in keeping with the times and further pleasing Holywood, he has "resigned" that post. But that doesn't in anyway diminish the absolute power he has over the believers.

The self-burning occurres in this context.

MargaritaHinksoni
MargaritaHinksoni

@nhautamaki what can the chinese government do about Tibet anyway? why simple... get out of their country, end their invasion and go mind their own business. 

MargaritaHinksoni
MargaritaHinksoni

@DongYongSheng friend, imported Chinese labour now outnumber tibetans in Tibet region... so "the common Tibetans" you are seeing are imported chinese people not tibetans. the Dalai Lama year after year after year has offered to step down as leader but he is so well loved by his people that the Chinese government live in fear of his shadow.   

JS
JS

@DongYongSheng --oh, good suggestion. But, um, sorry: travel in Tibet is banned. Now why would that be?

BeWay
BeWay

Buddha doesn't lie but the exiled Tibetans conveniently lied all for the sake of trying to paint the Chinese as bad guys.    Just for one instance if the Chinese have denied the Tibetans the rights to the religion, why are there still 1/3 of the 3 millions Tibetans that are all monks.  

landaisy
landaisy

@Sam1000 Truth can also tell lies.Don't consider everything only accordding to your own background  .

Afterall,every coin has two sides .

nhautamaki
nhautamaki

@MargaritaHinksoni

I'm sure the Chinese will be happy to get out of Tibet just as soon as white people get out of both Americas.  Or is your thesis that white people committed cultural and actual genocide legitimately but China's occupation of Tibet is completely different in some way?

Here's what I've learned about these sorts of questions: historical arguments solve NOTHING because no culture is innocent.  Every culture, whenever it has power over another, always uses that power to its maximum effect to dominate the victim, and after 8000 years of this only the strongest and most vicious have survived.  We are no exception to that rule.  So going forward, look to the future to resolve these disputes; what is best for people in the future is all that matters.

rangzen_rolang
rangzen_rolang

@BeWay Yes, the Chinese are the bad guys. The Chinese invaded Tibet, killed more than 1 MILLION Tibetans. The Chinese destroyed almost all of the Tibetan monasteries, melting the golden statues, burning precious religious texts or using religious texts to pad their boots. China has systematically been driving monks out of the Tibetan monasteries. For examples, China has demolished the enormous Sertar monastery imprisoning its Abbot and expelling hundreds of monks. How did you get 3 million Tibetans? In REAL TIBET which China broke up after the invasion into Tibet Autonomous Region, Qinghai and part of Sichuan and Yunnan, there are more than 6 million TIbetans.

m.joey15
m.joey15

@ Landaisy How is the above arguement relevant?   Is there something that you have to share or you are making these statements just to undermine the plight of Tibet. An entire culture is being systematically erased here, that is one side of the coin. What is the other side?

MargaritaHinksoni
MargaritaHinksoni

@jackinbox  - oh man! even the Buddha was NOT a God. The Dalai Lama is a buddhist monk, not a god by any means. 

jackinbox
jackinbox

The Dalai Lama is God. That is a fact.

As soon as I knew that, I tuned out. What can I say? I don't agree??

MargaritaHinksoni
MargaritaHinksoni

@nhautamaki @MargaritaHinksoni you will be happy to know that i am neither a white person (I am black) nor do I live in a metropolian area, not in North America nor in Europe...  all your assumptions of what i would be accepting or excusing by being white and metropolitan are out the window. they do not apply. China should get out of Tibet.

DrCat
DrCat

@rangzen_rolang @BeWay It is meaningless to review the history of Chinese territory as it is changing all the time. We cannot define a historical empire based on what it was and what it is now. Anyway, Tibet is part of China now and it is a fact. The 21st century is a time for progress and people should focus more on progress instead of making troubles like terrorists just because they are 'desperate' on their inability. I am sure there so many chines do not support many issues and policies of their government but, for Tibet, any support for the independence of Tibet is against opinion of majority of Chinese. Therefore, no matter by self-burning suicide and violence against other Chinese people, the situation can not be changed.

SangpoAku
SangpoAku

@BeWay  The Greed is infact in the viens of Chinese Regime by colonizing Tibet's Land. We are asking simply what was our. It seems you belongs to a member of Chinese CCP but don't fool yourself by representing chinese people, because you simply don't have the mandate of chinese people let alone tibetans. You are also bullying and killing milions of chinese . Come on be honest.

JONASN24
JONASN24

@rangzen_rolang   Hey. Just look back at your comments. How funny they are! According to your logic, Real U.S is the territory owned by the native Americans. Real U.K is only the south east England. So what indeed is Real? Why don't you even claim that Real Earth is Republic of Dinosaurs? And we humans are greedy and crude invaders illegally occupying this planet?

rangzen_rolang
rangzen_rolang

@BeWay Yes, REAL TIbet is 1/4 of China. REAL China is behind the Great Wall. All the other territories - Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia and Manchuria - are illegally occupied lands. REAL China is a small midget country around the yellow sea. This tells you that China is the worst imperialist country in the world.

m.joey15
m.joey15

@BeWay Is this all that you have to say. You may want to go back and read as to how Dalai Lama was forced to seek asylum in 1949 when Chinese army marched into Tibet. I doubt if he can ever return and not be put under arrest. You claim that Dalai Lama wanted 1/4 of China Landmark (whatever that means) and it is not China claiming control over regions that do not belong to China.  If for a moment we accept that Chinese government has noble intentions, it should participate in talks with the  government in exile and work to arrive at a mutually acceptable situation which would enable the economic properity and cultural preservation in the Tibet region. Why is it not happening then?

BeWay
BeWay

What is the problem with the Tibetan?   They miss Dalai Lama as I understand.   So why is Dalai Lama not welcome back.    The reason is simple; the greed of Dalai Lama who wanted 1/4 of China landmark to be under his control.   In that case, the Chinese are right in the decision.

m.joey15
m.joey15

@BeWay Again I would say the same thing. The world is looking forward to know the other side of the story. Would you have any idea as to who else is responsible for the suffering of Tibet. Self immolation is a choice that Tibetans make themselves to show their protest. That is up to them. What  the peacefulTibetans have suffered is not their own doing.

BeWay
BeWay

To blame the Chinese for the Tibetans self-immolation is like blaming God for all the sorrow and sufferings in this world.