Viewpoint: Uganda’s Anti-Gay Bill a Christmas Alarm for Christians

Conservative Christians have played a key role in the global gay marriage debate, but draconian anti-gay legislation set to pass as a "Christmas gift" in Uganda could prod them to ask whether their doctrine really reflects their religion.

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Benedicte Desrus / Sipa USA

Ugandan gays and supporters attend a conference to promote homosexuals' rights in Kampala, Uganda, on Feb. 14, 2010.

The U.S. Supreme Court is mulling this week whether to walk down the constitutional aisle of gay marriage. The timing feels especially apt for American Christians, who this week are marking the start of the reflective, pre-Christmas season of Advent. Few groups have played such a key if controversial role in the gay-marriage dispute, and few have been as divided by it. (Most U.S. Roman Catholics support gay marriage, even though their bishops are among its most vocal opponents.) Now — with a re-elected President backing gay marriage, three states legalizing it last month and another rejecting a bid to ban it — Christians seem to be at a crossroads about homosexuality, much as they were a half century ago about civil rights.

So it might be helpful if Christians looked not at Washington, D.C., but at Kampala, Uganda, where an abominably homophobic “Christmas gift” is about to become law. The anti-homosexuality bill speeding through Uganda’s parliament right now — which that body’s Speaker has pledged will pass by year’s end as a “Christmas gift” to its backers — would impose draconian new punishments. Among them: a seven-year prison sentence for consenting adults who have gay sex, life sentences for people in same-sex marriages and even jail for those who don’t report gays and lesbians in their midst. Fortunately, Ugandan lawmakers say they’ve dropped the bill’s death penalty in cases of “aggravated homosexuality,” in which HIV is spread or gay adults have sex with minors. That article had prompted opponents to call the original legislation the Kill the Gays bill.

(MORE: Rick Warren Denounces Uganda’s Anti-Gay Bill)

Christians worldwide, including Catholics like me, should find the Uganda bill as relevant as it is repulsive. That’s because Christians in that East African nation — whose lobbying is generously funded by conservative U.S. Christian organizations representing every denomination from evangelicals to Catholics to Mormons — are perhaps its most influential supporters. In fact, the Uganda Joint Christian Council pushed parliament this year to expedite the legislation and “remain steadfast in opposing the phenomena of homosexuality.” One council member, Catholic Archbishop Cyprian Lwanga, opposed a similar bill three years ago, when the Vatican denounced “all grave violations of human rights against homosexual persons.” But since then, Lwanga seems to have decided that prison time for gay sex isn’t so grave after all.

Conservative Christians in more-developed countries like the U.S. will argue that they’d never advocate something as severe as Uganda’s bill. And some, like leading evangelical pastor Rick Warren, have, to their credit, decried that legislation. But I would remind them that 13 U.S. states (including mine, Florida) had antisodomy laws in their criminal codes as recently as 2003, when the Supreme Court finally struck them down. Many will insist that their opposition to gay marriage has nothing to do with how they feel about homosexuals personally and everything to do with their belief that it undermines the functional formation of, if not divine plan for, the vital family institution. I would point out that gay and lesbian couples have been raising perfectly functional, if not divinely acceptable, families for decades now.

No, the real question that conservative Christians from Florida to France to Fiji need to ask themselves at this point is this: By crusading to deny gays and lesbians the right to legally marry — by insisting that God doesn’t consider loving gay unions morally worthy of matrimony and therefore the state shouldn’t either — do they risk demonizing “the phenomena of homosexuality” as inhumanely as the Ugandans are? It’s of course a good thing that the Vatican has condemned the “abuse of homosexual persons.” But as a Catholic, I’m all too aware that Pope Benedict XVI has also said that saving humanity from homosexuals is as crucial as saving rain forests from lumberjacks. And that a Vatican spokesman, after last month’s pro-gay-marriage votes in the U.S., made the equally cruel remark that gay marriage is a slippery slope to polygamy. Don’t blame Ugandan Catholics if they’re getting dangerously mixed signals from Rome.

Still, conservative Christians will claim that St. Paul’s denunciation of homosexuality leaves them no scriptural wiggle room. But St. Paul also condoned slavery, and I think we can safely say Christianity has managed to wiggle out of that one, just as Jews today feel O.K. about ignoring the Torah’s edict to stone nonvirgin brides to death. Like everything else in life, religion has to evolve. If it doesn’t — if it remains as rigidly static as so much Christian doctrine has so far in the 21st century — it risks the irrelevance it increasingly faces in the U.S. The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life recently found that a record one-fifth of Americans, including a third of adults under age 30, aren’t affiliated with any religion today.

(MORE: Urban Ebola? Why the Latest Outbreak in Uganda Raises Worries)

If the U.S. Supreme Court takes up gay marriage during this session, many legal scholars believe the Justices will likely rule that banning it is unconstitutional. That’s partly because, they say, the high court will not want to appear as out of touch with history a decade from now as it would today if it hadn’t kiboshed the sodomy laws a decade ago. Eventually, hardline Christendom doesn’t just stand to find itself on the wrong side of history on homosexuality. It could also end up on the wrong side of Christianity, as Ugandan Christendom is this Christmas.

MORE: Is Gay Marriage Too Progressive for the French?

48 comments
rsmoot001
rsmoot001

I Think that the anti gay bills in Africa do reflect the Christian religion. They can't say it to your face, but go to a christian service and you will get a ton of dangerous anti gay rhetoric based on no facts, and only on what the christian radicals want to believe about others. I think that it would be interesting for the Africans that push this Holocaust  mentality, to know how white christians felt about blacks in America in the 1940's and 50's. My trip to Africa is cancelled. Will not support any country or place with such ignorant and stupid beliefs! 

CranberryTownship-gay
CranberryTownship-gay

I WANT TO FIND OUT WHO I WAS PREDETERMINED TO BE, I DON'T WANT TO BE LIVING A LIE!!!!!



i was reading on some "born this way" website about someone - let's call
him "randolph" - who was trying to justify his being "born gay" with a
picture of him as a small boy wearing a female's hat on his head. "the
cat was already out of the bag," he wrote. i will ask if it's true that
a life is set in stone at such a young age, because i am living a lie
if it is true. for crying out loud, i enjoy the way malt-candy tastes
today but i was sickened and revolted by the taste as a boy. what is
the meaning of this, i thought the cat was out of the bag that i hated
malt-candy! WHY WERE MY PREDETERMINED TASTES CHANGED, I HAD HATED
MALT-CANDY SINCE BIRTH AND NOW I LOVE IT.



my parents have a picture of me being on a soccer team at age 5 or 6 -
was the cat was out of the bag that i was born to be a soccer player?
soccer once attracted me like joni attracted chachi, so am i supposed to
be a soccer player and am i denying my true identity by not playing
sports? i would like to learn the truth of who i was predetermined to
be, because the last thing i want to do is deny myself of my true wants
and desires simply because those wants and desires were discouraged
through other peoples' negative opinions of my being a sportsman.



i have recently become somewhat of an incessant player of slot machines.
i'm somewhat entranced when i'm seeing and hearing the slots - slots
attract me like honey does to a bee, and it's so difficult for me to
keep from wrapping my hand around the big long pole and jerking it down
to get the slot machine ejaculating out money. my mind is in a
different place when i am faced with a row of sinfully-attractive slot
machines, they are such a temptation. i kind of want a psychologist or
other head-therapist to help me become the non-gambling person i want to
be., i don't want to see slot machines the way i do and i don't want to
be attracted to slot machines the way i am, but i'm sure it is illegal
for psychologists to change peoples' orientations. if gambling comes so
naturally to me, if i am oriented to the gambling world, then i have a
gamblers' orientation and i fear a psychologist would get in trouble for
helping me change my orientation. i fear i will just have to accept
having been oriented to gambling.



i wouldn't think i was born a gambler, as i had never wanted to gamble
before age 37, but maybe my inner gambler was stifled by christians who
made me believe that gambling is bad. maybe the choices i've made in
life were a product of christians' values which just didn't orient me to
gambling. maybe i was actually born a gambler, maybe my true identity
was stifled by christians, but even if it wasn't then i'm sure i could
find some "gay rights" groups to help me believe that i was always just
afraid to proclaim the truth about myself.



by age five, i was imitating john travolta singing "greased lightning,"
so i wonder if actors are predetermined. i memorized "ferris bueller's
day off" at 13, i memorized "dirty dancing" at 14, i acted in high
school plays, was i born to be an actor? i joined the soccer team at
about the same time as i emulated john travolta, am i supposed to be an
actor with a hobby of playing soccer? am i supposed to be a soccer
player with a hobby of acting? i guess i was born with so much
knowledge and so many interests and desires already formed inside my
brain, that it's hard to determine who i was meant to be.



i've had a love for dogs since i was 8 years old, i've always wanted
them to be protected from harm and to live a happy life, i've always
seen dogs of the world through the eyes of a caretaker - was i born this
way? was i born to be an animal-rights activist? am i predetermined
to be a soccer player with a hobby of acting, doing a weekend job at the
local animal shelter while spending my free time giving in to
temptation at casinos? i'll assume that this is just what randolph
would assume - he'd maintain that my behaviors should reflect my
childhood. he'd maintain that i was born with lusts for acting and
gambling, though my gambling-lust was stifled by christians until my30s,
and that it is self-denial not to act on my lusts. he'd also maintain
that i destroyed a part of myself because i had let other people stifle
my desire to play soccer so much that it doesn't exist anymore.



i'd wonder if randolph would maintain that i was born a dog-lover, since
i've loved dogs even before i started loving members of my own gender.
i don't trust randolph, i don't even know if he's a psychologist, so i
want to ask the following question to someone who knows something about
predetermined lives: who am i, why am i attracted to slot machines if
other men are not, why do i now like malt-candy when i've hated it for
as long as i can remember? and why does my mind process images of slot
machines and flavors of malt-candy differently than the way other mens'
minds do?



I WANT TO FIND OUT WHO I WAS PREDETERMINED TO BE, I DON'T WANT TO BE LIVING A LIE!!!!!



president obama has spoken, and i know that life is not what i make of
it. i know that life is like a business and that one person is not
responsible for either, therefore i want to live the life i was supposed
to live and not the life i've made for myself.



I WANT TO FIND OUT WHO I WAS PREDETERMINED TO BE, I DON'T WANT TO BE LIVING A LIE!!!!!



dylan terreri, i

jaggedlittledyl.com/essays

Phunkey
Phunkey

Many Christians cite the fact that Homosexuality was prohibited in Leviticus ( 18:22) the fact is that we are Christians people who walk under  grace and not under the Law of MOses (eg. the Old testerment and things like Leviticus) , We are Redeemed from the Curse of the Law ( Galatians 3 v 13 tells us which means that in breaking the law Jesus has taken away the penalty of that transgression.. here is faith ..not only did He take away the penalty and curse attached to breaking it but HE took away the Law altogether..Jesus is the end of the Law unto rightousness unto them that beleive. END OF. Gays and lesbians that believe that they can according to their faith in Christ and what He has done for them should be allowed to marry in the church of their Faith as they show faith in their Saviour and what He has done for them.  It is certainly is wrong to kill or persecute them because they are gay, there is NO jsutification for it in the scriptures to do so infact it is kindling up the wrath of God as it is not walking in Love

Bot
Bot

Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over.  As the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what he called "expansive energy,  which might be best summarized as society's will to make things better for the next generation.  In fact, no society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has survived.

Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Chairman of Harvard University's sociology department,  Pitirim Sorokin,  found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the culture's acceptance of homosexuality.

When marriage loses its unique status, women and children most frequently are the direct victims.  Giving same-sex relationships the same special status and benefits as the marital bond would not be the expansion of a right, but the destruction of a principle.



RandolfKendall
RandolfKendall

Americans need to respect Uganda's democratic right to enact this legislation. To do otherwise is the height of hypocrisy.  Ward Kendall, author of "Hold Back This Day" (amazon.com)

queendrag11571
queendrag11571

me and my husband has loved each other fo 11 years now it time we can get married legaly now

JeanPierreKatz
JeanPierreKatz

For thousands of years there has been a back and forth between the Middle Eastern idea of a sacred consensus and European individualism.

In Europe the Renaissance and then the Enlightenment was a victory for individualism. America was founded on the idea of the Enlightenment, and there was to be no sacred consensus in America.

The freedom of choosing who you will marry is very basic. Gay rights are civil rights.

That is why they will prevail here while in the Middle East the sacred consensus of Sharia Law will prevail.

Wouldn't we rather keep our separation of church and state with all the freedom we have with that way of life?

PlumbLine
PlumbLine

While I disagree with these laws being put forth in Uganda, as a christian I understand the signs of the times we live in. Jesus and the apostles said there would be an increase in immorality and a great falling away in the last days before Christs return. When a majority wants something, even if it is immoral, the laws will reflect that. Then what can the righteous do, if the foundations are destroyed. The world is heading for a climax of this age. World conflict, drastic weather, earthquakes, famines, pestilence, and troubles are going to increase in frequency and intensity. We  can heed the signs of warning, or continue to be led astray with the error of the wicked........

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8..........3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

VincentLovece
VincentLovece

Whenever someone claims to be on "the right side of history", stop your ears. No one can predict accurately how historical trends will turn out; scientific trends, maybe, but history cannot be guessed at like this. Also, claiming to "have history on your side" when you are losing at the polls about 32-4 is a joke.

AndrewK777
AndrewK777

This author is completely clueless. It was American evangelical groups that brought this idea to Uganda.

MatthewHoffman
MatthewHoffman

This article is filled with the usual irresponsible generalities that one expects on the topic from the mainstream media. The servitude condoned by Paul hasn't been abandoned by the Church per se -- people can be compelled to work without remuneration and without freedom if they have committed a serious crime under Church teaching and even under US law.  The Catholic Church has not and will never rescind its condemnation of sexual perversion, including that of sodomy. The Church also teaches that states can and even should prohibit such vices, a principle upheld by Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, in a 2003 declaration on homosexual unions issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

The author's claims to be Catholic ring hollow, and are a common ruse in the media for giving one's self credibility in attacking the Church.  A true son of the Church gives religious submission of intellect and will to the Church's magisterium, rather than bashing the pope for upholding the Church's condemnation of sexual vice.

Joe2011
Joe2011

In asking for Christians to evolve, why don't we ask God to evolve. My opinion as one who is Christian, is if gay people wants to marry and get spousal benefit, then let them. However, Churches should not be forced to recognize this marriage or even to conduct the marriage. Gay people may find their own choices to seek whoever wants to marry them. The liberty of living out one's conviction runs both way. Me thinks this is a good proposition?

GrantHarmon
GrantHarmon

The bible says that a man should not lay with another man.  It says nothing about women lying with women, however.  It also says eating shellfish is an abomination.  We need to legalize lesbian marriage and shut down Red Lobster. 

Robey
Robey

all hail All-Powerfull Bearded Sky Fairy!!

Dachman
Dachman

Peter in the Bible does not condon slavery. What he calls himself is a slave to Christ and lives a life of contsant beatings and persecution and eventual crusifiction himself.

What he says about slavery is for slaves to submit to their owners. Peter had died to himself and he is telling others that is what God has called them to do. Be an example for Christ wherever you are in life. That is not condoning or supporting slavery that is dying to self.

Robey
Robey

The author of this article doesn't realize that he is part of the problem.  The more religion "evolves" and becomes more agreeable, the longer it will hang on and people will continue to believe there's a Bearded Sky Fairy.   If you believe the bible but don't believe in magic and slavery, then you're a complete idiot.

bojimbo26
bojimbo26

I wonder how many of the law makers are gay ?

LelioRisen
LelioRisen

Thanks so much for an intelligent commentary on the role of religion in this horrific new legislation being proposed in Uganda.I would like to add a few points. First, being gay was already a crime in Uganda. This just makes it that much worse. Now, they want to force people to report those that they know are gay, or face incarceration themselves. Does it remind anyone else of the Salem Witch Trials? Or the McCarthy hearings?

Second, the growing wave of homophobia was actually stoked by evangelist Scott Lively, who now faces a lawsuit by an East African gay advocacy group, on behalf of those who have suffered because of Uganda's anti-gay policies. That lawsuit is happening in U.S. courts. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/14/scott-lively-us-pastor-anti-gay-uganda-_n_1345539.html

Additionally, Tony Perkins, who some confer mainstream status on, supports this legislation. He should be made to feel shame for his support. http://www.advocate.com/politics/religion/2012/11/28/uganda-has-tony-perkins-support

Lastly, I would just like to say that Ugandan gays have been sending out a warning that, just because one of the bills proponents said the death penalty clause is not in the bill, does not make it so. They have said we need to monitor this bill to see exactly what the legislation says. Although, regarding facing 7 years in a Ugandan prison for a consensual sex act between adults, I am sure those incarcerated would see that as a living Hell and I am not all that sure that everyone would survive it.

If this bill passes, there have to be international economic sanctions. Hate and cruelty need to have repercussions. @leliorisen

rsmoot001
rsmoot001

@Phunkey Your comments are well founded, But it is the Christians and their beliefs that have caused many people and not just gays to turn away from any religion and become anti christian, muslim, or any other. One day Muslims and Christians will regret the treatment of others when they get the same in return. 

rsmoot001
rsmoot001

@Bot None of these claims would hold up on any objective annalist. Marriage has never, never been the same through out history, and Christians certainly did not invent it. Since most religious people cannot except people who are different, how in the hell would religious people deal with a race from another planet in the future. They can't! 

rsmoot001
rsmoot001

@RandolfKendall According to your statement, Hitler was OK and we should have respected his right to enact whatever he wanted. 

Phunkey
Phunkey

@queendrag11571 make sure you are sure and prepared..dont do it lightly marital oaths must be paid

Phunkey
Phunkey

@PlumbLine am sorry no Christian can sit there and let anyone be killed or imprisoned ..what are the penalties that God in His Word under Grace? 


and Jesus has redeemed us from the curse of the law we are not under the Law but under Grace

Bot
Bot

@PlumbLine   Are you saying Barack Obama is the "Son of Perdition"?    He appears to support anything immoral.

MitchellWood
MitchellWood

@MatthewHoffman Objective, unbiased readers who want to know where Mr. Hoffman would like to take U.S. jurisprudence and culture, please see the following comments, which he made in response to my query to his column, ironically titled "Pro-family movement: with this strategy, get used to losing"(http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pro-family-movement-with-this-strategy-get-used-to-losing) I noted Hoffman's use of the phrases "repress vice" and quoting Pope Benedict, "contain the phenomenon" [of homosexuality] and said that seemed to be what the American fundamentalist-sponsored legislators were attempting to do in Uganda. Hoffman claimed that the Ugandan parliament had removed the death penalty (though this is disputed by some sources) and indicated his support for the rest of the bill by writing: "one might hope that Uganda will produce a balanced law that offers help to homosexuals to avoid the vice of sodomy and that simultaneously enables law enforcement to suppress the behavior when its practitioners are recalcitrant." I asked him further what regime of penalties he felt would be appropriate: life imprisonment? 20 years' hard labor, 10 years solitary confinement for "crimes against nature"?Hoffman replied: "I would advocate probation with psychological and spiritual counseling as a condition for the first offense, and then start with a year in jail and move it up for repeated offenses. The purpose would be to protectthe homosexual from himself and to suppress the "gay" subculture to prevent it from spreading, as the pope recommends. Homosexual marches and gay bars and bathhouses would be shut down as they once were. Itwould be illegal to promote the homosexual "lifestyle." Russia's approach seems to be moving in that direction, and rightly so."How American, how civil, how Catholic of him! Mr. Hoffman claims to be living in Latin America, but it sounds like he would be more at home in the Middle Ages or as an enforcer of the Spanish Inquisition.

AndrewK777
AndrewK777

@MatthewHoffman Condemnation of sexual vice. The Catholic Church are a bunch of child rapists. Get your head out of your rear.

CarlLegg
CarlLegg

I believe Jesus when he says love your enemies, do good to them thathate you, and be charitable in all things. While I embrace science andobjectivity for its value, I believe love is more compelling -- moreimportant to our survival -- than anything else. Matters of the heart, with orwithout magic, are far more central to humanity's essence.

timtimemiami
timtimemiami

@Robey 

I think it's fairly clear that urging religion to evolve also means I patently reject a literal belief in the Bible. But that's apparently a little too nuanced for you. In any case, thanks for so uncivilly proving once again that atheists can be just as intolerant as religious fundamentalists. Happy Holidays.

rsmoot001
rsmoot001

@Phunkey @queendrag11571 Straight people take their oaths lightly everyday. I think that Straight people and Christians are in no position to dictate advice on marriage to anyone!

MatthewHoffman
MatthewHoffman

@AndrewKamadulski  Most of the priests who were involved in the sexual abuse scandal were homosexuals who were preying on adolescents -- precisely the thing that the Uganda legislation seeks to prevent. Are you sure you want to bring that topic up?

rsmoot001
rsmoot001

@MatthewHoffman @GrantHarmon No you condemn people that you don't know and try to write laws to control their live while giving people like you the right to do anything that you see fit. 

Phunkey
Phunkey

@MatthewHoffman @GrantHarmon we are not under the Law but under Grace,Paul went back unto HIs pharaseesim. We know that the Lord aslo granted women gender equality --WOULD PAUL ALLOW it ? no the pharasee!

RichardCortijo
RichardCortijo

That's right Matthew, they kinda just make it up as they go along, don't they?  Take stuff out that they don't feel like following any longer, add new ones and leave in ones they think are cool.  When does the New New Testament come out Matt?  Are they thinking a Sping re-release might make it a best seller?

AndrewK777
AndrewK777

@CarlLegg When you start dying reject the doctors who will try to help you and heal yourself with hugs.

MitchellWood
MitchellWood

@timtimemiami @Robey Mr. Padgett, you call out Robey for his uncivil tone and intolerance. If it's a choice between purported atheist intolerance and the legal proscriptions and underpinning anti-civil liberties beliefs and desires of your co-religionist Matthew Hoffman, I think I know which poses the greater threat to revered American values of equal justice before the law and rights guaranteed by the US Constitution--and it's not the atheists. There simply is no moral equivalence.

Robey may have engaged in violating social etiquette with his anti-religious, dismissive comments--but I respectfully ask that you hold Matthew Hoffman to account for his statements in a similar fashion, and that you reply to his comments. Matthew Hoffman offers a chilling insight into the minds of those who would wish to "contain the phenomenon" of homosexuality--in Uganda, Russia, the Vatican, or the U.S.A.--and if Robey deserves your rebuke, then certainly does not Matthew Hoffman warrant a rebuttal?

GrantHarmon
GrantHarmon

The ironic part of asking Christians to evolve is that so few of them believe in evolution. 

rsmoot001
rsmoot001

@MatthewHoffman @AndrewK777 To be truthful, over 60 precent of priest raping children were heterosexual, and little girls were the victims. Every gay person that I know condemn the actions of child adult sex. Maybe the good old boys in the locker rooms could do that same thing. Also the Uganda legislation does not seek to prevent child rape by gays it just wants to find another demon to pursue and take the real problems that the Ugandan's have off the public's mind, Just like christians in the rest of the world do. So I can handle any topic you like.

Bot
Bot

@MatthewHoffman @AndrewKamadulski  According to Father Benedict Groeschel of Westchester County, New York, 90 percent of the sexual abuse of children was done by homosexual priests, who constitute 10 percent of all priests.  Do the math, that means that homosexuals abuse 81 times as frequently as heterosexuals.

Phunkey
Phunkey

@MatthewHoffman am most certainly not it was Paul who went back under the Mosaic Law and practised Pharaseeism. The Devil comes to kill steal and destroy was what the Lord said no matter what the person has done their punishment was not for them to be stoned to death or imprisoned etc ( for the latter - they that lead into captivity  will go into it selah!) yet the romans passage we see paul advocate that they deserved death. Also in the There is no male or female Truth whether you accept it to just mean that Jesus has brought in Gender Equality or that it means the abolition of gender rules we still see that Paul refused to obey the Holy Spirit - he says he would not suffer women to preach above men, so how are we to accept that it is not the case that under Grace Jesus has not done it for Gays and lesbians in keeping with the Spirit.

MatthewHoffman
MatthewHoffman

@Phunkey @MatthewHoffman @GrantHarmon Phunkey you're abusing that passage to apparently endorse an antinomian position that implies that we are no longer subject to the natural law of God.  The passage refers to the ritual precepts of the Torah, which are no longer in effect under the New Testament, but the natural law and the laws of the Church remain in effect. Read Romans 1 for more.

CarlLegg
CarlLegg

@AndrewKamadulski @CarlLegg I greatly respect medical science that can prolong my life, but such technology is not as important as love. If I die, I die, but before I die I want to make the world a better place for my being here. Some of my technology has already done this. But "things" will never be as important as the intangible qualities of the heart.

timtimemiami
timtimemiami

@MitchellWood @timtimemiami @Robey 

The article itself is my rebuttal to fundamentalists like Mr. Hoffman. I certainly don't agree with the often bigoted views he's expressed in this forum, but calling him or anyone else a "complete idiot" doesn't exactly advance my argument or the revered American values you refer to. You can cry "false equivalence!" all day, but atheist intolerance is no more "moral" than religious intolerance.