Is Narendra Modi a Step Closer to Being India’s Next Prime Minister?

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Ajit Solanki / AP

Indian state of Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi greets his supporters after casting his vote in the second phase of state-assembly elections in Ahmedabad, India, on Dec. 17, 2012

Gujarat’s bookies are probably lying low for the next few days. The good odds they put on a narrow win for Narendra Modi did not pay off today, as the charismatic and divisive Indian politician was re-elected as chief minister of the western Indian state in a decisive victory. The win — Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) won 115 of 182 of the state assembly’s seats — is a strong stamp of approval for the party and the Hindu nationalist politico himself, who has played a pivotal role in setting Gujarat on a path of enviable growth. It also marks a major defeat for the Congress Party, which came in at a distant second with 61 seats, and raises the stakes in the battle between India’s ruling party and the BJP for hearts and minds in the run-up to national elections scheduled for 2014.

“There was a thinking in our politics that good economics is bad politics,” Modi said in his victory speech on Thursday. “Development won today.” Few figures in Indian politics have the kind of devoted following that Modi, 62, enjoys today. The feverishly loyal supporters who gave their chief minister another run in office this week believe he has turned the state around, creating a rare, business-friendly environment that has brought money, infrastructure and much needed jobs to this important coastal state. (Read a victory blog post from Modi.)

At the same time, few figures have been as polarizing. Controversy has followed Modi since 2002, when, after 58 people were killed in an arson attack on two train carriages carrying Hindu activists, Gujarat erupted in a spasm of brutal anti-Muslim riots. As many as 2,000 Muslims were killed in the violence that followed, and 10 years later, many in India still blame Modi, who was chief minister at that time too, and his colleagues for their alleged complicity in the attacks. Modi has always firmly denied such accusations. When asked about his role in the riots in an interview with TIME earlier this year, he refused to comment on the subject. “Let people say what they want to say. My actions speak.” In October this year, the U.K. government announced that it had instructed its high commissioner in New Delhi to re-engage with the Gujarat state administration. Modi has been denied visas to the U.S. in the past, however, and 25 American lawmakers recently called on President Barack Obama to do so should Modi seek entry to the U.S. again.

That poses a potentially awkward scenario as Modi inches closer to seeking the country’s top job. His election team ran what was surely one of the most ambitious state campaigns that India has seen, employing 3-D holographic technology so he could deliver stump speeches in dozens of locations at once. (The tactic, intended to highlight the state’s technological prowess, drew immediate criticism from Congress, which demanded the Election Commission look into how the gimmick was funded.) The stakes here are high: without this win, Modi risked losing the momentum he will need if he wants — as many think he does — to try to bring his political career to the national stage in 2014.

Modi has never publicly said he wants to be the next Prime Minister of India. But senior BJP leaders have floated his name many times, setting the stage for a possible showdown between Modi and Rahul Gandhi during campaigning next December. Though he was not running for any seat in Gujarat, as Congress’ general secretary, Gandhi has become central to his party’s 2014 election campaign. It is still unclear whether the 42-year-old will take over the reins if a Congress-led government were to be voted into office in 2014. Like Modi, he has never stated that he covets the spot at the top of India’s political scrum. But unlike Modi, many in India speculate that Gandhi doesn’t actually want the job. Doubts about his appetite for the post were recently raised again when, in a recent Cabinet reshuffle, he did not take a ministerial position.

Nevertheless, as India’s two main political parties fought over Gujarat this month, Gandhi led the charge. The politicians exchanged several pointed barbs in the days before the polls. Before a packed rally earlier this month, Gandhi said to a crowd of Congress supporters: “I was told that Gujarat has been shining, all due to the efforts of one man … Do you have electricity? Do you have water? Do the youths here have jobs?” The crowd cried back: “No!”

Derailing Team Modi’s narrative that Gujarat is excelling in development and economic growth had been one of Congress’ key strategies in fighting his re-election. Modi’s highly effective p.r. crew has been peddling the story of Gujarat’s growth for many months, touting its development policies as a model for other Indian states. Their claims are not baseless. As noted in this magazine’s March cover story on Modi:

Today, Gujarat is the only state in India where both big businesses and small farmers can expect an uninterrupted power supply for nearly 24 hours a day, with the premium rates paid by big business used to subsidize rural electrification. In 10 years, Gujarat’s auto industry has grown from one modest plant to an expected capacity of 700,000 cars in 2014, including billion-dollar investments announced last year by Ford and Peugeot.

Those are positive numbers, the likes of which only a few other Indian states can match. But as elections got under way, some questioned whether Gujarat’s growth has translated into the levels of poverty reduction that it should have, drawing attention to the widening rich-poor divide in some parts of the state. For others, the specter of such a polarizing figure leading the nation raises questions much larger than whether trickle-down economics is working in western India. Modi’s critics fret over how a man associated with one of the worst cases of communal violence in India is the right person to move this diverse country forward.

It’s a question that BJP leaders are no doubt thinking hard about as they ruminate who will be the next front man for their party. But millions of Gujaratis have already made up their mind. As one supporter tweeted out on Thursday: “Modi is my PM because he’s growth-focused, decisive, tactful, visionary and good at marketing.” Whether or not it was a typo — Modi was just re-elected CM of Gujarat, not PM of India — is unclear, but it’s probably not an error that anyone on his celebrating team would try to correct anytime soon.

84 comments
shashi
shashi

namo is the greatest leader of present time for India and he always talk about development but some person always spread lots off negative things about him......
definitely he will be The next pm of India

jit
jit

Narendra Modi ji is the only alternative . He is a dynamic personality and pro people politician want to bring a total change in the political scenario of India with development of the country in all dimension. He should be given a chance to prove himself to be  the most successful PM  of India in 2014 general election. 

AnkitBhayani
AnkitBhayani

plz plz plz for our mother land plz vote for modi ......its bright future of india...........

gunjan075
gunjan075

most of the muslims support modi its congress who is creating fear in the minds of muslims,

bobbyrg
bobbyrg

its a true article he is the right leader for india and Indians

dbcube
dbcube

thanks times. you bring this article.  hope you  will stay leading in world with positive and truth.

anoop.covetus
anoop.covetus

development is the key of all problems said modi.

hiddenmindboy
hiddenmindboy

why Muslims are so freaking offensive , i just don't understand , i have never ever seen more pathetic people than muslims in my life using religions in every states why their own countries like iran,saudi,iraq,etc can not even accept other religions , it is india , where hindu is born and at least they accept other religions who are founded outside of the country  . not like islamic  countries labelling ' islamic country of blah blah or stupid religion laws ' . hasn't Islamic enough to break india ot three pieces and stole other religion counties like malay ,indonesia n steal cultures . that's really pathetic religion ,even lost respect for them ,  muslims are the only people who don't see their own mucus .   i am sick of muslims in news  making it is all about them by showing pathetic pics of them .  they ask to accept them and they can't even accept other people .  i just hope INDIA  will not be like typical muslim countries where all people wear the same clothes and no sense of cultures . pls defend ur own country . Nothing wrong with being proud of urself  in YOUR OWN COUNTRY . not like offesive muslims

johnraj1100
johnraj1100

Dont belive Congress parties cash transfer scheme.it is nothig but stopping all the subsidies and just throwing the money on our faces without taking any responsibility of us

johnraj1100
johnraj1100

If u want to do some thing for your mother land then vote for MODI

ATrueIndian
ATrueIndian

Modi...will become the PM..nd not on the basis of vote-bank politics but on the basis of development.

onceindiannomore
onceindiannomore

bottom line..he is a racist..and no racist should ever be allowed to become PM of a secular country..find some else without a black mark on his record..

pakkogujarati
pakkogujarati

Modi is a man of action. As a Gujarati, I have seen and felt the real, actual, measurable progress in my home state over the last decade. Of course capitalism or socialism can not and will not solve every single citizen's problems. The fruits of these progress will take time to reach to those less fortunate sections of society, but we have lost many opportunities in last 60 years. Now's the time to roll up our sleeves (not like how Rahul baba does ;-)) and get to work to make India superpower. 

JohnDahodi
JohnDahodi

Yes, I do and that is the reason his each blood vessel is filled with HINDUTVE craze and anti-Islamic venom. And, because of that he is unfit for the PM position. Sure, he will convert India into a fanatic Hindu right wing nation, and soon India will be divided in to several Hindu communal groups, who will start fighting among themselves and the great democracy will be doomed forever.

gbhat_
gbhat_

Some factual errors: The actual killed were under 1000. out of which 721 were Muslims and 271 were Hindus. Please recheck and report the correct  numbers. Please don't sensationalize the deaths now, that may instigate many others. Moreover, motivated people may take reference to your wrong accounts.Secondly, Modi has been given a Clean Chit (exonerated) by the Indian Supreme Court appointed SIT (Special Investigative Team) and there is no IOTA of any evidence whatsoever to try him. Please read the SIT's final report. Modi is clean from 2002 and no one can stop him from becoming the PM now.

ThinkingWoman
ThinkingWoman

Some bloggers and responders to this article are showing the problems of India well in the way they wring or argue with each other...too many infighting.

Narendra Modi is probably going to be the PM. He is not "a great" choice or "the best choice"... but he is a "the better choice".

Indians by now should know a leader cannot solve everything, and they need to get involved in community affairs with thought, unity, dignity, pride, commitment and focus for a long term future. Something few Indians, most battered by feudalism, colonialism, classism and sexism, do.

Yes...Narendra Modi will be the next PM. But he needs to deliver and people also have to know how to work together with intelligence and a long term vision. Indians drag each other down too much, they are not patriotic as Americans and they are not good at knowing how to subtly work together. Indians cheat Indians, exploit Indians and abuse Indians...the people, the land, the resources, the labor, the culture, the poverty, the disparity and the social problems....making it easy for foreign invasion, occupation, manipulation and control.  

NaMo (as Narendar Modi is affectionately called by his supporters) is the new India...good, bad and better.

I wish him and his family well...and India might go in a better direction than the dynastic rule it has been under for such a long time. They do really need a political change.

PrachiGidwani
PrachiGidwani

There Are total 104 Riot since Akilesh Govt Elected in UP, there are more than 2000 People  died in Assam RIOT making entire NE student and people to Migrate.... There is Meerut riot 1989-- case file is missing..Palanapur Riot...... All this was funded by so called Secular Party.....Kangress.... SP.. RJD...... And there many more... only for Muslim...... Leaving aside... SIKH , DALIT, And Christian....

Not only 2002 riot is the only riot... where investigation-conviction - and jail is been.. order... rest all is case of Kangress and Fake gandhi are still not even registred... Media is full of Paid...news...

Media is shows 2002 riot as big... I doubt Foreign Funding in Tarnish the Image and cause Hurdles to Make PM MODI.... as there interest will not be Successful ... 


Gujarat and it's development.. is something i saw and wish to extend to all country... No matter... what be the case.... MODI should be PM.-..a people born in Normal -Middle Case family...... Not Useless Fake Gandhi.....Who has not relation-connection genetically-philosophically....with GANDHI......


In a way.... MODI is more GANDHI than ... SONIA Manio or RAUL VINCI......As he is INDIA... and HOLDS.... INDIAN PASSPORT... not ITALIAN Passport..... 

SatyenMehta
SatyenMehta

While the report is on the whole laudatory of Mr Modi, a few expressions (divisive, polarising etc.) are very similar to the ones used against Mr Modi, by a section in India viz., left leaning NGOs, political rivals of Mr Modi and a section of the media which, for the last decade, has launched a vicious and vitriolic campaign against Mr Modi, far surpassing the divisiveness and polarisation Mr Modi is accuesd of. Mr Modi on his part has tried to unite people with an all inclusive growth and development model unmatched in India. As regards the visa issue, Mr Modi has, in the first place, not applied for one. With modern technology Mr Modi addresses the Indian diaspora in the USA via tele-conferencing to get his message through. Incidentally after the UK re-engaged with Mr Modi last month, now the Delhi based Ambassadors of teh Europen Union who will hold a crucial meeting in January to reveiw their stance.

divyeshkr
divyeshkr

Claims made by Modi about the development and growth in Gujarat are misleading. The actual growth rate during his tenure remained 9 to 10 %. It has never been higher or the highest during his tenure. Compared to other Chief Ministers tenures in past Mr. Chimanbhai Patel, Madhavsinh Solanki and Amarsinh Chowdhri the growth rate was much higher than Modi’s tenure. During Amarsinh Chaudhri’s tenure the growth rate was 40.18% which has the highest record in the history of Gujarat. During Chimanbhai Patel the growth rate was 34.33% and during Madhavsinh Solanki’s tenure the growth reached to 30.06%. Per capita income is at # 11 in Gujarat compared to other states in India and the debt has increased many folds in Gujarat State. How does Modi claim Gujarat as most developed state in the country? The state textile industry was at the top in India has dropped a lot and Information Technology business and Call Centres prospects have been washed out. Propaganda and misleading information by the BJP government is deceiving. Victims of Gujarat riots of 2002 are still awaiting rehabilitation and compensation. Making comparison claims of Ahmedabad Shanghai and New York is one of the way to mislead innocent and many people with little knowledge of Gujarat. Cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkata, Chennai. Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chandigadh, Gudgaon are much developed cities compared cities in Gujarat including Ahmedabad. Crime, corruption and women safety issues are major problems in Gujarat State. Female ratio is constantly decreasing in the state in last ten years. Education is indeed poor and therefore unemployment for local youth is a big issue. Gujaratis are unhappy due to such reasons and therefore highest number of Gujaratis look for opportunities abroad. Many unemployed youth will try to migrate illegally in developed nations to earn their bread. Violation of human rights is very high and the Supreme Court of India, National Human Rights Commission, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International had to take cognizance and advise to stop it. As a result many developed nations revoked Modi’s visa and rejected new applications.

luck0077
luck0077

@TIME Question : If I called the President a Lying,two faced,Queer,Black,Basterd, would that be a true description? Just asking. Respond.

lbjack
lbjack

Diverse?  WHat garbage!  India is 80% Hindi!  Modi is trying to get them to overcome their caste differences and unite.  Muslims should either behave or move to Pakistan.

RoshanShah
RoshanShah

I have a different view especially since I have seen a huge.. huge.. huge funds spent on PR and poaching of Narhari Amin. This did have significant impact on Gujarat Elections.

Many may not like to read this, put political analysts will really see what has happened.

Home Minister Praful Patel and Gujarat Law and Parliamentary Affairs Minister Dilip Sanghani both dusted(People verdict shows law and order failure in state)... and "Sanand" - the place where Tata Nano was projected as the icon of Vibrant Gujarat lost by BJP to Congress. 

The ground level reality of Vibrant Gujarat is seen right there because Marketing and PR does not work when people at ground level see it. If development was done, Sanand should have been the most .. I repeat.. the most secured seat.

Gandhinagar constituency also had 5 seats. 3 went to Congress.

In Maninagar also newbie Shweta Bhatt - first time ever standing in election cut Modi's last year Victory margin by few hundred votes. The one and only, larger than life Narendra Modi can't even retain his victory margin against first time newcomer?

I hope in coming 5 year we get new Asia's largest Airport at Federa, Metro Rails Starts, iCreate Incubation Center rolls out at least 300 startups and GIFT city becomes International Financial Backoffice. Rather than new MoUs and showing new 'One more Ma exists' like the climax of Bol Bachchan movie, I would rather want to see these projects to conclusion. That would be something really something we can be proud of if it happens.

Real Estate prices will slump rapidly now as people will want to see real development. If Sanand has rejected Vibrant Gujarat mandate, it is a matter of concern. I see people working hard without equivalent gains and if Govt does not stop doing yatras and do real work in govt offices, we will have fewer growth opportunities for youth.

Guts can help make tall speeches. Guts can help put vision in front of people. Guts in wrong areas can create fear too. Why has no central BJP leadership told this Gutsy man, that he should stop yatras and spend time in office? Why is Gujarat assembly running fewer and fewer days every year. At least you can see center debating on issues (good or bad)..In Gujarat today you have bills and bills, passed in a day and issues that corner govt are not even debated.

Now isn't that scary? "It is like I am the player and I am the Umpire" - even if anyone tries to play in this ground.. seriously.. anyone, they would be stupid. Better they play a game which has fair rules.

Now the game really begins.. R C Faldu loses (it was planned anyway). Tally 115 and Congress and BJP both at center will cut Modi's aspirations.

Even before 2014 happens, lot of myths of Vibrant Gujarat will be busted.

If HCL Technologies bags 2 clients from TCS, it is TCS loss. In Gujarat, Congress has increased its tally by 2 and BJP lost by two. So who has lost it?

Congratulations to Narendra Modi for winning. Because Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander. Modi who did it with his Sadbhavna nautanki and then not giving tickets to Muslims still has long way to go as he keeps playing communal flip flop

shashi
shashi

plz vote for Narendra Modi....................

ChiragShetty
ChiragShetty

@onceindiannomore How is congress nt a racist.. doing vote banl politics is racism as well.. Actually its castism nt racism . racism means difference on the basis of color. Congress is doing the biggest castism ever our secular govern don't want them.. Vote for MOdiiiiiii ..

johnraj1100
johnraj1100

@onceindiannomore  thats really true thats why secular pm like Manmohan Sing is the greatest PM of india.is that u mean???????????????????????????

johnraj1100
johnraj1100

@pakkogujarati please thake responsibility to educate atleast 100 people to understand the importance of Modi through internet

NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

@JohnDahodi I'm sorry I didn't get U.  So what's that that is fascinating to U?  Is it the idea that India might be divided into Hindu communal groups or is it the idea that Indian democracy might be doomed?

But I'm sorry to disappoint U that both are not likely to happen.

JohnDahodi
JohnDahodi

@gbhat_  

No, the actual count was 2,167 but the N. Modi's police force had buried hundreds in unknown graves and many deaths were never recorded. Too many unthinkable human rights violations and crimes against humanity were carried out in browd day lights in Gujarat.

ThinkingWoman
ThinkingWoman

Your point well taken. Now write better and don't rant and rave in a foreign press making your own community look bad.

PrachiGidwani
PrachiGidwani

@divyeshkr Have you visited Gujarat... or sitting on Laptop and Commenting as Moron... what About Harayana, UP, Rajasthan... comment on it.... 

There Are total 104 Riot since Akilesh Govt Elected in UP, there are more than 2000 People died in Assam RIOT making entire NE student and people to Migrate.... There is Meerut riot 1989-- case file is missing..Palanapur Riot...... All this was funded by so called Secular Party.....Kangress.... SP.. RJD...... And there many more... only for Muslim...... Leaving aside... SIKH , DALIT, And Christian....

Not only 2002 riot is the only riot... where investigation-conviction - and jail is been.. order... rest all is case of Kangress and Fake gandhi are still not even registred... Media is full of Paid...news...

Media is shows 2002 riot as big... I doubt Foreign Funding in Tarnish the Image and cause Hurdles to Make PM MODI.... as there interest will not be Successful ...


Gujarat and it's development.. is something i saw and wish to extend to all country... No matter... what be the case.... MODI should be PM.-..a people born in Normal -Middle Case family...... Not Useless Fake Gandhi.....Who has not relation-connection genetically-philosophically....with GANDHI......


In a way.... MODI is more GANDHI than ... SONIA Manio or RAUL VINCI......As he is INDIA... and HOLDS.... INDIAN PASSPORT... not ITALIAN Passport.....


NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

@lbjack It's not Hindi it's Hindus.  Hindus are the religious majority.  Hindi is a language.  But more than 50% of India speaks other languages other than Hindi.  That's why India is multi-lingual.  Constitution approved 21 languages as official and co-official languages in different states.  I don't know where U get these crap Ideas of Indian muslims moving to Pakistan, but in our daily lives Muslims, Christians and Hindus live together.  It happens only in India that Hindus and Christians go to Majhars of Muslim saints.  Other religion people visit churches and many muslim families ancestrally provide their services to Hindu Temples and Hindu Festibals.    Things are not like U sit aloof in some alien country and imagine the worst.  So kindly don't imagine and fantasize.

johnraj1100
johnraj1100

@ChandBeebi  please thake responsibility to educate atleast 100 people to understand the importance of Modi through internet

dbcube
dbcube

dear, have you invest in gujarat? please answer.  seconde thing are you in favor that gujarat growth will not take place? i don't think you can answer yes or no to my both question.  you are check mate..

gauravecer
gauravecer

@RoshanShah Do you know in Maninagar 1,00,000 voters been reduced because of delimitation?...How many tickets given to M's by Congress? 4 out of 182 compared to 0 by BJP and Congress is more secular...Congress didn't even remotely use a word 2002 in their campaign...and they r secular....haha...what a logic.....stop cribing..congress is always interested in power by hook or crook.... Nehruvian secularism and socialism must be trashed if India wants to prosper.

DeltaForce
DeltaForce

@RoshanShah Hey Ground Reality Genius, Modi won Maninagar seat by margin of 86,373 after final count. Elections are over, stop spreading blatant lies internationally.

SanMann
SanMann

@RoshanShah ,

You claim to be an unbiased commentator, but clearly "newcomer" candidate Shweta Bhatt was put up as a candidate by the ruling Congress Party kleptocracy only because she was the wife of police official Sanjiv Bhatt, who made allegations against Modi. Other than being Sanjiv Bhatt's wife, she has nothing to distinguish herself in any way - no claim of any kind of experience in governance, or any prior involvement in public affairs. Basically, Congress plucked her from obscurity to make her their mascot just because she's against Modi. That's pathetic, and it's yet another example of how the Congress kleptocracy will spare no effort to attack their opponents. The Congress has no positive record of their own to run on, and so they can only stoop to cheap political stunts at the expense of voter interests.

It's never about the interests of the voters - it's always about keeping the Congress One Party State in power by keeping their political opponents down.

NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

Well said @johnraj1100  What a joke, MMS is the greatest PM of India?

if @onceindiannomore really thinks MMS is the greatest PM of India, then he must seriously define who's going to be the most lethargic and inactive PM of India.

gbhat_
gbhat_

@JohnDahodi @gbhat_ OK. Please give any proof you may have. You should giv it to SC so that it can punish Modi, if he had any hand int hem too.

FYI, the CONgress ruled central Govt too has confirmed the total deaths as less than 1000 and the Hindu+Muslim break up of the same. The Independent SIT went through practically every possible evidence, but couldn't get any iota of evidence that could indict Modi.

Go by the facts Bhai, not by your emotions or passions. FYI, this election Modi got over 25% Muslim votes in Gujarat. Modi won 80% of the seats where Muslims are over 35% population. Forward looking Muslims in Gujarat just support Modi, except a few who want to wear Injury for an ornament. I hope you are not one among them. Thanks,


Modi is the ONLY politician in India who is NOT treating Muslims as mere VOTEBANK, but as fellow Gujarati's. All his welfare schemes addresses all 100% population and not just one community. Despite being the Gandhi's bastions, Amethi and Rae Bareili have the highest rate of Muslim poverty in India than Gujarat. Gujarati Muslims earn around 14.5% more than their Hindu counterparts. If you are interested, i can share some more factual info.

dkumar217
dkumar217

@NandaKishoreN @lbjack  He has a valid point. U may not agree but there is some amount of truth in his statement. The problem with us Indians is this that we dont face the issue directly. We will sugar coat it and would assume that it would get solved automatically. There is a definite issue with Muslims  which the Indian media will never portray. The will call give terrorism color when a Hindu is involved (Saffron Terrorism) but would hesitate calling Islamic Terrorism as Islamic Terrorism. BTW, Do u know that in the past 20 months of Akhilesh govt. in  UP more that 12 riots have occured but conveniently ignored by Indian media? When Osama becomes "Osama jee" then problem in India become more prominent , it will not reduce. We need person like Modi who would take on issues head on.

NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

@lbjack Let me add Mr.Jack, U formed Ur judgements after facts read from books.  But what we are talking about is how we live.  

 U need to distinguish between some communal riots within a society and International Terrorism. Sep-11 WTC, 13-Dec Parliament attack and 26-Nov Mumbai attack are Terrorist attacks. 

In fact, I've born and brought up in HYDERABAD, the Capital of Andhra Pradesh and since boyhood days witnessed Communal Riots which are often rumored to be triggered a means to change of local leadership.

U need to understand a fundamental difference between Western Countries and India.  Unlike in Western Countries, muslims are NOT immigrants in India.  Indian Muslims are ancestrally Indians since many generations.  U can't parcel them anywhere to Bangladesh or Pakistan.  Though, its a fact that a sizable population of muslims "chose" to migrate to Pakistan at the time of Partition. But that's their choice.

Certain amount of friction what @dkumar217 mentioned and even I agree with is happening because of the Vote-Bank politics by our leaders.  Friction might be there, but we need to deal with it.

@NandaKishoreN 

NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

@lbjack Oh! Mr.Jack, Do U have any idea of, what India and Indian Muslims are about?  Your mentioning the Honors degree in History itself says that U have a by-and-large picture of facts from your curriculum.  9/11 and the whole galaxy of names what U've mentioned is not going to make U understand the daily life of people in India.  

Indian muslims are as much an integral part of India as Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and other religions.  Just to mention, Dr.APJ Abdul Kalam is a muslim who is a Jewel in the crown of Mother India.  How many muslims in India have contributed to the development of the country, U have scientiss, doctors, artists, professors.  India is secular not just by constitution, but by its very nature. We have been secular even before our Independence and even before the Bristish Rule.

Friction happens in every society, we've witnessed communal riots from time to time.  That doesn't mean you compare Indian muslims to the muslims of all the other countries.  A country is not a Pie-Diagram to divide it saying this part is Muslim and this part is Hindu.  It's a society, a society about which, apparently U seem to have got no clarity.  

Yes, we have so many problems what @DKumar217 mentioned and we need to find solutions to it.  But please understand, that things are not simply 'Black' or 'White' like U imagine.  U've actually proved that I was right in using the word "Prejudiced-Imagination".  U r prejudiced against anything that is "muslim" and U imagine a dreadful society in India.

@dkumar217 @NandaKishoreN 

lbjack
lbjack

@dkumar217   I thank @NandaKishoreN for the pedantic correction.  OK, 80% of India is Hindu.  My statement about NaMor stands.  As for my not providing details, I should think that what Islam stands for needs no detail to anybody not in a perpetual coma.

9/11, Bali, London, Madrid, Iran, Mumbai are all I need to know about Muslims.  Hamas, Hezbollah, The Muslim Brotherhood, Jemaah Islamiyah, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, and other murderous, oppressive, thoroughly corrupt Muslim societies are all I need to know about Muslims.  And before you begin the usual "you're as bad as we are," even if it were true, it certainly doesn't excuse you.

Hindu is an intrinsically inclusive religion and culture.  Islam is the contrary.  So as I say, Muslims in India can either behave themselves -- i.e. reform -- or they can move to Pakistan or Bangladesh.  Or they remain a bloody nuisance in India and continue to suffer justice by true Indians, government and people.

So, NandaKishore says I have a "prejudiced imagination"?  Prejudice means judging before the facts. My University Honors degree is in history.  History -- events, facts, documentation, skepticism -- is my exclusive criterion.  Sometimes facts are uncomfortable, unpleasant.  That's because I form my judgments after facts, not before them.  I base my judgment of Muslims on how they behave.  And their behavior since the founding of Islam has been barbaric everywhere, all of the time.  This is FACT, not prejudice.  Don't blame the messenger if you don't like the facts.

NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

@dkumar217 @NandaKishoreN In my earlier message when I said Prejudiced Imagination, I was refering to @lbjack and apparently not U.  

First of all most of the countries can't even remotely imagine what a Diverse society is all about.

If we look at what Jack wrote, "Diverse, What Garbage ...", does he have any valid point to make.  Does he sound remotely that he has any understanding of what is what?  Absolutely not, but he just made a point, for the sake of making a point.  That's what I meant prejudice.  He imagines that Indian Muslims must migrate to Pakistan.  What a crap! That's what I meant prejudiced-imagination.


NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

@dkumar217 @NandaKishoreN @lbjack Everything what U said is true.  U may say let westerners think what they fancy.  Even I may not be concerned with it.   But when we read a comment we tend to react.  That's spontaneous.  

U and I won't say India is barbaric, bcz we know it's far from being barbaric.  But a large group of Western public concludes something like that.

All I'm saying is sadly most of the westerners who don't understand these things, jump into conclusions and start making comments.

India today became a highly corrupt society.  And politicians are the ones who made it so.  Politics are played for Vote-Banks, which bring in cast politics, regional politics, religion based politics and so on.  Raising emotional issues and creating vote banks, and trying to sustain them.  That's what politicians do.  That's perhaps true across the world.

And that Vote-Bank politics is at the crux of all this divide between minorities and majorities and many other social groups.  Issues are raised from time to time.  Media reports them and outsiders tend to think that that's the whole picture of it.  If we get a chance and we try to make out point about what we are, I think even an iota of such an effort is worthwhile.

dkumar217
dkumar217

@NandaKishoreN @dkumar217 @lbjack  True, where have I said things are barbaric in India but its bad. And though I would like to have a PM like Modi  but in no way I want Muslims to leave India. All I am saying is that the policy of minority appeasement, the policy of dividing Indians into majority minority, the policy of delayed justice for political gains, the policy of religion based quoatas should be stopped ASAP. AND If you can connect the dots you would find that there is some fringe element of minority community associated with all the above issues. These issues are not imaginations, these are the issues which are weakening the Indian society within itself and I am not at all concern with what westerners think.

should be stopped ASAPshould be stopped ASAPshould be stopped ASAPshould be stopped ASAPshould be stopped ASAP

NandaKishoreN
NandaKishoreN

@dkumar217 @NandaKishoreN @lbjack I'm sorry kumar, but U hv discussed many points, but Jack didn't have ANY point to make.  It's just a prejudiced imagination that things are barbaric in India and if Modi becomes PM all the muslims will be driven to Pakistan.  While we know it's NOT like that.  It's like 2002 has infected their brains and that tumour makes many Westerners imagine horrific things happening in India.  While people in India have been co-existing since thousands of years.