The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works

Michael Buholzer / Reuters

Swiss marksmen shoot at targets over 300 m away during an annual shooting-skills exercise near Bern

Even as the gun-control debate rises again in the U.S. in the aftermath of the horrific school shooting in Newtown, Conn., the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.

(MORE: The World’s Best — and Worst — Places to Live)

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.

Switzerland trails behind only the U.S, Yemen and Serbia in the number of guns per capita; between 2.3 million and 4.5 million military and private firearms are estimated to be in circulation in a country of only 8 million people. Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)

(MORE: Switzerland: Are Its Days as a Tax Haven for Foreigners Numbered?)

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

Although guns are responsible for between 200 and 300 suicides each year in Switzerland, Pro-Tell’s Suter says these statistics have to be put in a wider perspective. He points out that the bullets used in suicides are only a tiny fraction of the 75 million rounds of ammunition that are fired each year in Switzerland during military and civilian target practice.

(MORE: When the Swiss Aren’t Neutral: Chocolates and the CIA)

One of the reasons the crime rate in Switzerland is low despite the prevalence of weapons — and also why the Swiss mentality can’t be transposed to the current American reality — is the culture of responsibility and safety that is anchored in society and passed from generation to generation. Kids as young as 12 belong to gun groups in their local communities, where they learn sharpshooting. The Swiss Shooting Sports Association runs about 3,000 clubs and has 150,000 members, including a youth section. Many members keep their guns and ammunition at home, while others choose to leave them at the club. And yet, despite such easy access to pistols and rifles, “no members have ever used their guns for criminal purposes,” says Max Flueckiger, the association’s spokesperson.

“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings.

“If people have a responsible, disciplined and organized introduction into an activity like shooting, there will be less risk of gun violence,” he tells TIME.

That sense of social and civic responsibility is one of the reasons the Swiss have never allowed their guns to come under fire.

MORE: Switzerland: A Painful History

350 comments
x_wolff
x_wolff

@GrumpyOldeDude Nice piece of liberal propaganda, try throwing me something not funded by socialist politics.

AsmodeusX13
AsmodeusX13

@jswifty250 Nothing wrong with ours in less we are talking about the gun grabbers >.>

jswifty250
jswifty250

@AsmodeusX13 I wish people weren't so irrationality scared of guns here. And the Swiss have an interesting story and history.

markchera
markchera

@jswifty250 Ahhh, Switzerland <3

jswifty250
jswifty250

@markchera amen!! ^_^

markchera
markchera

@jswifty250 Only problem is the Swiss I know on Twitter are about 50/50 on the issue. They have a liberal young generation same as us. :/

markchera
markchera

@jswifty250 and...maybe a more left-leaning tech-friendly slice of society? (Pleasepleaseplease)

jswifty250
jswifty250

@markchera I always have 2 remember that twitter represents such a small part of society. also, not necessarily a realistic representation.

famulla5
famulla5

The reason is that USA government does not know how many are licensed and how many are un licensed and who has these who has these illegally . Then there IS NO control . This goes back from the OK Coral times I thank you FirozaliA. Mulla DBA

R__O__D
R__O__D

In the 60's anti-whites forced ALL and ONLY white countries to open their borders to non-white immigrants. Then anti-whites forced ALL and ONLY white people to "integrate" or face consequences for being "naziswhowantokill6millionjews." Now anti-whites are counting down the days until ALL and ONLY white children become minorities and eventually extinct EVERYWHERE. It's Genocide. "Anti-racist" is a codeword for anti-white.

whois
whois

"Although guns are responsible for between 200 and 300 suicides each year in Switzerland..."  The guns are responsible for the suicides?

"Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S.,...."   The semiautomatics caused the havoc?

This article is typical anti-gun "journalism".  Demonize the inanimate object so as not to blame anyone in particular.




TylerBaldwin
TylerBaldwin

@whois  This article is about Switzerland's successful gun culture.. real anti-gun journalism going on here. Moron..

cpratt001
cpratt001

Chicago: hundreds killed each year (daily); extreme gun laws already in place (some of the most restrictive in the nation).  If anti-gun requirements, bans and restrictions do not work there then why cant anyone understand the logic fails?

Had guns in my house 47 years.  I was taught as a 4 year old how to handle and respect guns.  My guns are stored safely in a gun safe (true safe, not some cheesy tin box) because i know owning a firearm means i am responsible for it and any bullet that leaves that muzzle.  No one has ever been hurt nor killed, not even threatened by a gun in my home (although several animals have been killed while hunting-bring this up to make the point the guns are regularly used).

Folks-it is NOT the guns.  It is the lack of intelligence, responsibility, accountability.  it is mental health, it is our "mcdonalds society"-i want it now, in the drive thru and i do not want to wait.  It is our failure to use common sense (is arresting a 5 year old with a pretend grenade common sense?), it is poor parenting, it is our failure to provide people with guns good, free training how to use them, it is our failure to provide them a good, free place to use them at a competitive level.

It is not our "gun culture", it is our complete culture that lacks in connectivity.  No connectivity leads to cold relationships.  It is lack of love, it is lack of God and spirituality in our society.  Give the bad guy/drug addict celebrity a second chance, give the addicted, cheating athlete as many chances as he needs because he is our lord and king-we look up to him.  we want to be like him.  Our mirrors that look beneath the surface are broken, our friends dont know we have problems because they dont see us anymore or talk to us anymore, they get a text or facebook mail.  we are a DYING SOCIETY and there is no doctor, the only cure is time.

rutnerh
rutnerh

re Swiss gun culture during WWII, Stalin apparently mentioned a possible invasion of neutral Switzerland saying that the Swiss had an army of only 5 million men compared to Stalin's 20 million. But a Swiss official responded by saying that each Swiss man owned a rifle and had at least 4 bullets.

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver But I do digress…

VeloBusDriver
VeloBusDriver

@TransitSleuth Hell, I don't care if people can buy machine guns, assuming regulation is stringent enough. (Don't know what that looks like)

VeloBusDriver
VeloBusDriver

@TransitSleuth By "NRA gun culture" I'm referring to absolute refusal to implement any gun regulation. Swiss example seems more my style...

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver we fix those things… then it won't matter if the guns are legal. People won't be doing crazy violent lethal insane things. :)

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver the thing that is actually correlated with a high level or causation are poverty, drugs, lead & related toxins.

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver I'd bet 90% of mass murderers & murders, etc are all non-NRA, either legal or illegally used firearms, etc.

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver and also, to note, the "NRA brand of gun culture" is extremely rare that they hurt anyone.

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver ban them, or keep them, thousands will continue to lose their lives. America's fixes aren't a simple boolean fix.

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver I've saved three people by having a fire arm. I've also seen ppl die because the wrong ppl were armed.

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver society wastes vast amounts of time screaming about guns - pro or anti. Doesn't matter either way.

TransitSleuth
TransitSleuth

@VeloBusDriver statistically speaking, neither are… the real problems are far outside of those things. They're just polarizing and thus...

jfsabl
jfsabl

Switzerland also had--and has--every paved road bridge and railroad track near the borders mined or else set up for destruction in some other way (e.g. falling rocks in narrow mountain passes). It also had (and has) an army made of practically every male citizen, and they are required to show up periodically for refresher courses. The point isn't that they had citizen-owned guns. Those were not rare in France or the Netherlands, either, back when most people supplemented their food with game that they shot themselves. The point is that they had a trained and informed citizen army, who expected that they could and would be called upon at any moment. (The Israeli army was originally patterned on the Swiss army.) John McPhee's excellent, delightful and readable classic, La Place de la Concorde Suisse, is highly recommended. 

farmacia3j
farmacia3j

One of the reasons Hitler did not invade Switzerland was due to many common folks owning rifles.

farmacia3j
farmacia3j

One of the many reasons Hitler did not try to invade Switzerland, was due most people being armed.

DremaWhite
DremaWhite

@r3volution123 @ReturnTo1776 And a bank account

r3volution123
r3volution123

@DremaWhite @ReturnTo1776 and a little swiss army knife lol

ReturnTo1776
ReturnTo1776

@r3volution123 Yep. And if I've heard correctly, they have the lowest rate of gun crimes in the world.

r3volution123
r3volution123

@ReturnTo1776 You heard correctly. CRAZY. RIGHT? Go figure #gunlaws don't work. Who knew? *sarcasm

jfsabl
jfsabl

@r3volution123 The Swiss have quite stringent gun laws. They don't prevent most people from owning guns, just as car laws don't stop most people from owning and driving cars. Once you get over the false assumption "more laws = less guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens," it all makes sense. 

MarkYoung
MarkYoung

Watch this YouTube video:

Obama to Top Brass: Will you fire on American Citizens?

MarkYoung
MarkYoung

I don't see psych drugs mentioned in this conversation.  Watch video: Founding Fathers vs. Anti-2nd Amendment Protesters at NOVA Firearms and see links below it on histories of gun control, crime statistics, founding fathers quotes, etc.  Nearly all, if not all, of these horrendous mass murderers were on psych drugs.  Guns are being scapegoated by gun grabbers.
"Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot". "The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works", Time Magazine, 12-20-12.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel LMAO would you like for us to follow the Swiss example and disband our military? Along with their stringent gun regulations

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 no, what I'm saying is that America is America, Australia is Australia, and so on. And in America, the ban did not work.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel So America is America and Switzerland is Switzerland #yourlogicnotmine

jp
jp

@JessicaJohnson One way to think about it is they might have more respect for life over there.   

You are correct in the thug mentality.   Having a "Thug life "is  admired in the US.  

Maybe until the US has weaned itself from the culture of violence,  guns should be regulated strictly.

In Switzerland,  they don't live "thug lives."  However,  they make concessions about where bullets should be,  and how strict training is required.  They regulate even though they have minimal violence related to guns.  It's admirably proactive, once you think about it.

JessicaJohnson
JessicaJohnson like.author.displayName 1 Like

@HeNeverLies4 Swiss citizens and American citizens have a totally different way of thinking. Americans think "shoot first and ask questions later" makes them look hard core, but it only makes them look like a bunch of thugs. Just from reading the article, it looks like Swiss citizens are more respectful of each other, and human life in general. Not only are gun crimes very low, but any crime in general is very low. Laws can maintain order (sometimes), but they can't make a person good.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 i draw it as semi-automatic firearms, and that convicts and mental patients should be excluded. That is my position on guns.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 part of the problem with drug cartels in corruption in the Mexican government, not just the guns they use. Different story.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Answer the question where is the line drawn? "Bear arms" is a broad vague term.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 but see, you take it our of proportion. There is a difference between a semi-auto weapon and a WMD.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel So can I keep and bear... nuclear arms? Where does it stop?

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Drug Cartesl have been wrecking havoc on the border with them. Just FYI. Yaknow that border you pretend to care about

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 not to mention that no sensible military would ever send soldiers into battle with semi-auto AR-15s. Weapon of War, my ass.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 because you have a constitutional right to keep and bear it. That's why.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Ruin what? We have gone over dozens of different objects that can used to mane/kill/harm etc. Why a tool of war?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 a lot of blame falls on her for having those around him. But that shouldn't ruin it for the rest of us.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 he doesn't. But the larger point is that if his mental health was cared for, he may never have been around them, either.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Point being if his mom does not have them how does he get them?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 once again, he stole them. No arms dealers involved. Sorry if I misunderstood your last tweet.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel I wonder if a deranged man would have been able to get into contact with arms dealers in Connecticut. LOL naw prolly not.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 no, he stole them from his mother, then killed her with them.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Adam Lanza bought his weapons legally. You must fell proud.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel You mean the dumbass conspiracy theory that this was to get guns banned? The investigation found nothing. Move on.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 never said Obama. Said members of his administration. His repeated citation of executive privilege has blocked key facts.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 or murder a family member for them, like Adam Lanza did.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 straw purchasers. Which he ATF went out of their way to set up in fast and furious.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel LMAO prove it. Obama first hand forced them to sale those weapons. This is gonna be good.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel lol bro. who would have sold him illegal guns if the cartels cant even get them illegally?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 that man was deranged. If he really wanted to do that, gun laws would not have stopped him.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 actually, some of the involved gun store owners questioned the ATF about allowing those sales. But government wanted it done.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel what if the shooter never had access to weapons in the first place.... Hmm..

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Should we harass Law abiding citizens who buy assault rifles? That is what you advocating for.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 neither of the adult victims were armed, it seems. May have turned out differently if they had been.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel There was no stopping it . It was all legal till the trigger was pulled. Own up to it. The shit you believe got him killed

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 our government purposely allowed those sales. The Bush administration had tried to shut it down for it's inefficiency.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 the government allowed it to happen. Brian Terry was murdered as a result.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel So you are ok with knowing they would have gotten the guns anyway? thats fine with you?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 my argument is that there is no need for an assault weapons ban. That's where this started.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel They were bought legally, the government cant stop a legal action. Thats how Governments work. LMAO. Do you even book?

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel I have made my logic very clear, and what you just said comes no where close.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 the administration allowed those guns to go, and in turn those guns killed American citizens. What an accomishment.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel My logic is something that is solely designed to kill has not place in common society with a fully active military.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 I didn't say they were more dangerous. I said they killed more people, meaning that by your logic they should be banned.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Bro. you just argued Rocks are more dangerous then guns. How am I asinine?

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Liberal bias? haha bro those are as unbiased as it gets. "The Blaze" and "Brietbart" is pure trash and you know it.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 then I'll refuse to tear through your liberal biased articles.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 remind me again, what is your question? Your asinine arguments are clogging my feed and it's hard to tell.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel I have not even begun to tear through these dumbass conservative biased articles you posted.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Obama? LMAO bro gun walking and selling guns to cartels COMPLETELY different things. Get some facts PLEASE.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel You brought up the swiss first pal.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel LOL if you were paying attention to my argument then my argument is not invalid.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel bro. your the one that brought them up. just answer the question.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 whatever works best for you. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, you know?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 so stop embarrassing yourself, and retreat. Or begin arguing that we should regulate rocks, knives and hammers.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 and I brought up rocks because rocks kill more people than guns, which makes your argument invalid.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 I brought up the Swiss to counterpoint your bringing up of Australia.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 lol are you aware that Obama sold guns to the cartel? Just wondering.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Bro you brought up rocks for not reason just like you brought up the swiss for no reason. Answer.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 And that is that. You can change the subject, but you cannot change reality.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 and faced with a criminal with a gun, I would much rather be armed with a gun than a rock. And I'm sure you would too.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 and regardless of any law, criminals will possess guns, because they don't care about laws.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 problem is that the guns have already existed for hundreds of years, no way to take them away now.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 they are. The difference is simply in who is wielding them and for what.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Then why do you need a gun? Rocks are pretty strong sources of "right to bear arms" right? Arms can be rocks... apparently.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4 like.author.displayName 1 Like

@theycallMEFogel Do I really need to waste my time? face it. Guns are produced to kill people that is its sole objective on this earth

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Shall I bring the cases they were used as weapons of assault or oppression?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 and here:Armed-Citizen-Report-North-Dakota-Man-Shoots-At-Home-Invader

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 now how do you propose getting rid of all the guns? That would be in violation of the constitution.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Guns are by there nature offensive weapons bro LMAO "self defense" hahahahahahaa

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel if ther were not guns would there need to be self defense from guns?

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel So? lol Just becuase you wrote the law does not mean you own it. Many people helped him. thats how congress works bro.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 because guns are a more efficient means of self defense.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Answer. If knives are so dangerous why do we have guns?

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Madisons interpretation of the law =/= what law actually says.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 he explains what the right to bear arms means

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 I think that should be quite obvious. I encourage you to read Federalist No. 46, by president Madison.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel if knives are such efficient killers why do we have guns? "Right to bear arms" never specially denotes a firearm ya know.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 knives kill too. So shouldn't you be for control over them, too?

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel lol knives, daggars, stun guns, pepper spray, etc countless ways to defend yourself without a gun.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 she probably can't. That's why you carry a pistol. But here in Illinois they want to block that, too.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel I am fine with that. I wonder if she can hid a AR-15 in her blouse. You should do the research on that.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 the two worst school shootings since the ban ended were not done with an "assault rife." That is a fact.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 the difference is that you made an inappropriate comment, and I made a serious argument, which you can't seem to argue against

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel They DO work. its math bro. More slaughters since the ban ended. MOre in the world. More then anyone ever actually.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel *Complains about bringing up rape* >>> *Brings up rape in next tweet* LMAOOO

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 what if man tried to rape a woman, but was stopped because she was carrying a concealed firearm?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 once again, bringing rape into this is a disgusting thing to do.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 point is that the bans don't work, so we should be making it easier for law abiding citizens to defend themselves.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 do you also think that because some cops are dirty, we should have no cops at all?

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 IEDs are illegal, and rightly so. I simply mean to point out that gun laws will not stop evil people from doing evil things.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Bro. New Orleans was the murder capital too with no guns laws whatsoever. Why? Why were they killing each other. WITH GUNS

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 yes he did, and I commend him for doing so. We have no argument there.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 concealed carry should be allowed everywhere. No more "Gun free zones" like Chicago, because that's simply a cruel joke.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel what if the armed guard wants too kill eveyrone in the school? Tough luck huh?

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel didnt Obama sign an executive order just for tthat? lol

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 principals should by law have to undergo some form of training and certification so that they can be armed.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel IEDs are illegal..... these slaughters were perpetrated by "law abiding citizens" until they pulled the trigger lol

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 teachers who request it should be able to undergo training so that they can somehow be armed.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 there should be armed security in schools.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 no, I believe what we should do is have tighter backround checks and more mental health checks.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel So we should ban all weapons? I like the way you think sir.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 only two of those were both after the ban and with assault rifes. No assault weapons used in Newtown.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 there were no assault weapons at Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois, or the Amish School.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel we have had more mass murders since the ban expired then all in American history combined. It does work bro. Sorry.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 once again, with our own asasult weapons ban, we had columbine. Bans don't do shit.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 look at columbine. Assault weapons ban didn't do jack shit to stop columbine.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 and I had to check you for bringing in Australia. Remember, we live in AMERICA.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Name a country with a assault rifle ban that has had as many mass murders as us.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel yah yah yah. But Australia has not had a single mass homicide since their assault rifle ban. It works. proven.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Of course but unless you dont wanna disband active duty then you dont want Switzerland. But we can do Australia.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 ...it might not work in another. You still are ignoring that the CDC found had no effect IN AMERICA. You know, where WE live.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 Then you should have never brought up Australia. I brought in Switzerland because for everyhting that works in one place...

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel Bro you compared Switzerland to America. I had to check you.

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel IF THAT IS YOUR LOGIC WHY IT MAKES NO SENSE TO BRING UP SWITZERLAND.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 I said they are both different from America. Get your head out of the clouds.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 well then I brought up Switzerland to show that they don't work. But neither of them are America, making both slightly useless

HeNeverLies4
HeNeverLies4

@theycallMEFogel To show assault weapons bans can work. thats my point.

theycallMEFogel
theycallMEFogel

@HeNeverLies4 what I'm saying is that different things work in different places, and in America the "Assault Weapons" ban did not work.