Good Lord: In China, Christian Fundamentalists Target Tibetans

Tibet is one of the most coveted locations for nondenominational American and Korean Christian groups angling for mass conversion

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When Dawa said yes to a party held by American friends in the city of Xining, she expected music, drinks, and a chance to practice her English. But it soon transpired that there would be more to the evening’s activities.

“When we arrived one person said loudly: ‘Lord!’ and started to cry,” Dawa, an earnest Tibetan in her late 20s, recalls in a café in Xining, the capital of China’s Qinghai province. “Some people came and touched me and cried. We were so afraid. We thought, Why are they crying?”

For Dawa and her friend Tenzin (names have been changed to protect their identities), both Tibetans from nomadic families trying to make it in the big city, the situation was not only potentially dangerous if they had been caught by police but humiliating. “We were upset,” explains Tenzin. “They had told us we could learn English. We felt like fools.”

The pair had been roped into an evangelical Christian gathering. For missionaries, places like Xining provide rich pickings among so-called unreached peoples. In the city, Hui Muslims sporting white caps live side by side with Tibetans, many wrapped against the cold in colorful robes. An increasing number of the latter have come from the sprawling Qinghai-Tibet Plateau in search of work and education.

(MORE: Why Do Christian Groups in China Put Authorities on Red Alert?)

Tibet is one of the most coveted locations for nondenominational American and Korean Christian groups angling for mass conversion. Most are fundamentalist Christians who prioritize preaching and winning converts over the charitable works traditionally performed by mainstream missionaries. The more radical evangelists believe in the biblical notion of the “Great Commission” — that Jesus can only return when preaching in every tongue and to every tribe and nation on earth is complete.

On websites like the U.S.-based Joshua Project, ethnic minorities are seen as “the unfinished task.” Of these, “Tibet has long been one of the greatest challenges,” reads a summary. “In 1892 Hudson Taylor said: ‘To make converts in Tibet is similar to going into a cave and trying to rob a lioness of her cubs.’”

Missionary work remains illegal in China and is viewed as a tool of Western infiltration. In 2011, officials issued a secretive 16-page notice ordering universities to counteract foreigners suspected of converting students to Christianity. But in parts of Qinghai proselytizing is being quietly tolerated, according to Robert Barnett, a Tibet scholar at Columbia University. He cites estimates that as many as 80% to 90% of the few hundred foreigners living in Xining are fundamentalist Christians.

Barnett believes the reason for the government’s tolerant attitude is twofold. First, American missionaries, often funded by their churches, provide a valuable service teaching English for scant pay. Second, by targeting Tibetan Buddhism, missionaries might just help the government erode this integral part of Tibetan identity. Keeping a lid on restive Tibet, which China invaded in 1949–50, is paramount. Under Chinese rule, self-immolations by Tibetans protesting religious and political subjugation have become common in recent years. Tibetan-language schools have been closed down, nomads resettled in towns and cities, and monasteries subject to close police surveillance. Images of the exiled Dalai Lama, Tibet’s spiritual leader, are banned.

(MORE: How Many Self-Immolating Tibetans Does It Take to Make a Difference?)

“There is a certain underlying commonality of purpose between the evangelizers and the new modernizing Chinese state. It’s just convenient for them to use each other,” explains Barnett. “[Today missionaries] have greater opportunities coming in on the coattails of the Communist Party.”

Jason, whose name has been changed at his request, is one such American working clandestinely on a student visa. He knows foreigners who have been kicked out of more politically sensitive areas of Tibetan-populated Qinghai by authorities. But he is thriving in Xining. Leaning forward enthusiastically in the bustling Western-style business he manages, he lays out his reason for coming to China: “When I moved out one of my main agendas was to see if the teachings of Jesus work in an environment where they are not known at all.”

Jason compares the Kingdom of God to an outstretched hand available for anyone to “grab.” But for most Tibetans grasping the hand of Jesus is a moot point. Some might adopt him as one of a pantheon of gods; others simply find his story unimpressive. “[Missionaries say,] ‘Well, look at the miracles Jesus is able to perform, to turn water into wine and to heal the sick,’” Elizabeth Reynolds, a Fulbright scholar researching Tibetan culture in Xining, explains. “The Tibetan goes: ‘Is that all he can do?’ It’s believed that such special phenomena [already] occur around high lamas.”

To combat such indifference, radical Christians in the past have employed tactics such as tract bombing — undercover distribution of thousands of leaflets in Buddhist areas. In one blog, published in 2006, a young zealot gives a blow-by-blow account of tract bombing among Tibet’s “satanic” monasteries. After his mission is complete, he observes: “Man how blinded these people are.”

(PHOTOS: Migrant Nation: Liu Jie Documents China’s Ongoing Transformation)

Many missionaries today are subtler. Many become Tibet scholars in their own right. Most entrench themselves in local life. Much of the informal English instruction in Xining is run by missionaries as are the majority of the foreign cafés. They translate the Bible into Tibetan, distribute flash drives containing their beliefs and rework Tibetan folk songs with Christian lyrics. Some help run orphanages. Targeting the young is key. When a South Korean missionary asked Tenzin which Tibetans needed help, he suggested the elderly. According to Tenzin, the Korean replied: “Not old people — [we want] children.”

Aggressive tactics persist, however. In a quiet Tibetan town three hours drive from Xining, one local describes seeing a missionary throw coins into the air. “This comes from Jesus,” he declared to the astonished crowd. The same Tibetan remembers with an incredulous laugh being told that Christianity brings cash. “All Buddhist countries are poor,” the missionary said. “If you believe in Jesus, you will be rich.”

If conversions are to be found, it is among those who stand to benefit the most from missionary-led charities and social enterprises. Tibetans in Xining reported knowing at least one convert, an uneducated teenage Tibetan given a job and board by missionaries. According to sources, he hangs around hospitals, spreading the word of God and translating for nomads who do not speak Mandarin.

Open conversion, however, remains rare. Few would risk the wrath of family members by abandoning their own faith. Barnett describes hearing about one case in which relatives threatened to kill a missionary who had converted their kin. As such it is impossible to know how many converts there are. Barnett says: “I think we are going to wake up one day and see these people have made serious inroads into a culture already under threat.”

For Jason, it is about providing choice. If a Tibetan travelled to America to share Buddha’s teachings, he reasons you “have a right” to hear their views. It is misguided to think that “Tibetans are too stupid to make decisions about their own life,” he says. “Personally, I would like for all people in the world to have access to the teachings of Jesus.” Asked how he envisions Christianity in China, he insists: “I don’t think it is building big gaudy churches and having people wear suits and changing their culture.”

Back in the café, Dawa is not so sure. Religion is essential to her Tibetan identity. “I know my way,” she says resolutely. “I believe in Buddhism. They cannot change me.”

MORE: Why We Question God

179 comments
Bloogie123
Bloogie123

Dear Mr. Good Example! It's a good question. My experience with people of various religious persuasions, and people of no religious persuasion, suggests to me that "goodness" is not the sole territory of any particular persuasion. As an American citizen, where we have the right to free speech, however, I am troubled by the nastiness of certain Christians, e.g., Fred Phelps being one  prime example. Christians are invited to distance themselves from those who profess to be Christian who condemn all non-Christian and try to lure them down a path that the missionaries choose by holding out promises of money, English teaching, invitations to 'real American suppers', or whatever. This seems particularly the case in China were there are more Christian missionaries masquerading as small business-people, English teachers, students of Chinese, and so on and so forth. Many of these people are true losers, who have somehow obtained support for the efforts. These efforts all too often quickly become efforts to demonize non-Christians and trumpet the superiority of belief in some narrow, nasty interpretation of Christianity. It would be far better to simply serve people who need serving, without thought of obtaining as many scalps as possible in order to return to the USA, exhibit the scalps, and ask for a reward. 

mrbadexample2147
mrbadexample2147

its written in the bible that god gave man free will and believed man were better than angels that pissed of a certain angel and he became the king of hell. so why are so many giving up their free will to the churches i m just a curious tibetan  buddhist  so please speak rationally and logically

gal8896
gal8896

Christianity and Islam are liable for extermination of many indigenous cultures. Now they have targeted two upraising countries (China and India).

gal8896
gal8896

There is very little difference between Islam and Christianity that is Islam wants to occupy whole world by terror whereas Christianity wants to convert whole world by money and different other blackmailing tricks.

SouthernBaptist
SouthernBaptist

Slavery in the 19th century became the most critical moral issue dividing Baptists in the United States. Struggling to gain a foothold in the South, after the American, the next generation of Baptist preachers accommodated themselves to the leadership of southern society. Rather than challenging the gentry on slavery and urging manumission (as did the Quakers and Methodists), they began to interpret the Bible as supporting the practice of slavery and encouraged good paternalistic practices by slaveholders. They preached to slaves to accept their places and obey their masters. In the two decades after the Revolution during the Second, Baptist preachers abandoned their pleas that slaves be manumitted.

After first attracting yeomen farmers and common planters, in the nineteenth century, the Baptists began to attract major planters among the elite. While the Baptists welcomed slaves and free blacks as members, whites controlled leadership of the churches, their preaching supported slavery, and blacks were usually segregated in seating.

After Turner's slave rebellion, whites worked to exert more control over black congregations and passed laws requiring white ministers to lead or be present at religious meetings (many slaves evaded these restrictions).

In addition, from the early decades of the nineteenth century, many Baptist preachers in the South argued in favor of preserving the right of ministers to be slaveholders (which they had earlier prohibited), a class that included prominent Baptist Southerners and planters.

During the "Georgia Test Case" of 1844, the Georgia State Convention proposed that the slaveholder, Elder James E. Reeve, be appointed as a missionary. The Foreign Mission Board refused to approve his appointment, recognizing the case as a challenge and not wanting to overturn their policy of neutrality on the slavery issue. They stated that slavery should not be introduced as a factor into deliberations about missionary appointments.

In 1844, Basil Manly, Sr., president of the University of Alabama, a prominent preacher and a major planter who owned 40 slaves, drafted the "Alabama Resolutions" and presented them to the Triennial Convention. These included the demand that slaveholders be eligible for denominational offices to which the Southern associations contributed financially. These resolutions failed to be adopted. Georgia Baptists decided to test the claimed neutrality by recommending a slaveholder to the Home Mission Society as a missionary. The Home Mission Society's board refused to appoint him, noting that missionaries were not allowed to take servants with them (so he clearly could not take slaves) and that they would not make a decision that appeared to endorse slavery. Southern Baptists considered this an infringement of their right to determine their own candidates. From the Southern perspective, the Northern position that "slaveholding brethren were less than followers of Jesus" effectively obliged slaveholding Southerners out of the fellowship.

TheKnowerseeker
TheKnowerseeker

Great smear piece against Christianity, ATHEIST Magazine -- I mean, TIME. Christianity isn't about bilking people out of their money or converting "by the sword", and "fundamentalism" isn't about being crazy or evil but simply taking The Bible literally instead of figuratively (that is, focusing on the fundamentals of The Bible). Yes, there are plenty of snake oil salesmen running around saying "Jesus, Jesus" and claiming to be Christian, but they're not really Christians, and Jesus said the following about them: "I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!" Go to a Southern Baptist church, listen to a sermon, and get to know some real "fundamentalists" before making a judgement. What the article describes sounds more like cultism than fundamentalism.

- A born-again, Southern Baptist Christian

MickTen
MickTen

»For Jason, it is about providing choice. If a Tibetan travelled to America to share Buddha’s teachings, he reasons you “have a right” to hear their views«

It's not about choice. It's about aggressively manipulating others into one’s own faith. Tibetan Buddhism in America is there because Americans were interested in it and they invited Tibetan lamas to teach them. This is quite of a huge difference.

Socrates
Socrates

To the author and those who are of similar mind; I think the main thing to keep in mind with christians in general is that they think there is a hell for everyone who is not a christian. Hell you know, burning inferno, constant torture, pain agony, or in other words an eternity of pain. So if you think about it is it really that suprising that christians are willing to do what they do if it keeps one person from those things which they believe? Logically does it not make sense for people to not want other people suffer a ton even if it means they have to suffer a little? Their is always something to admire and love about other people even your enemy. I admire how much these people care about strangers even if I don't agree with they're actions.

atworkforu
atworkforu

So the problem here is that you don't think the Chinese are being sufficiently oppressive, because you think Buddhism is cute?

MoolbLeinad
MoolbLeinad

When a Buddhist monk in South Vietnam named Thich Quang Duc protested
the regime of former Vietnamese president Ngo Dinh Diem in 1963,
photos of his public suicide were splashed across the front pages of
Western newspapers in Europe and the US, introducing the term
“self-immolation” to English-speaking readers — and TV viewers —
worldwide.

Duc set himself on fire to protest the discriminatory treatment of
Buddhists under Diem’s Roman Catholic administration in South Vietnam.
As more and more monks in Vietnam followed Duc’s example, Western
media outlets began to see and understand the suicides as the
political and cultural protest acts that they were.

In the same way, the 100 self-immolations, so far, by Tibetans can be
seen as dramatic, political and newsworthy, yet the Western and Asian
media do not seem to be getting up in arms about this.

With China’s propaganda “machine” telling Western and Asian media
outlets that these Tibetan self-immolators are just crazy individuals
being led astray, and even encouraged by “that splittist the Dalai
Lama,” Western and Asian newspaper editorials reflecting on the tragic
deaths have been few and far between. For those media outlets in the
West and in Asia that toady up to communist China, it is business as
usual, with the emphasis on business. Do not upset the apple cart, do
not upset Beijing.

MoolbLeinad
MoolbLeinad

However, for more than 100 Tibetans who have committed suicide in
public by dousing themselves with gasoline and setting themselves on
fire — “self-immolation” is the Western media’s polite word for this —
such actions were intentionally public and carry an important message.

Yet who is listening, and are the Tibetan protests having any impact?
Where is the public outcry over these public and gruesome suicides in
the West — or in Taiwan or Japan, for that matter?

In the 1960s, when US military forces invaded Vietnam, a series of
public self-immolation suicides by Buddhist monks in Saigon served to
wake up US anti-war protesters and government officials in Washington
who were in charge of prosecuting the war.

MoolbLeinad
MoolbLeinad

Dan Bloom, Tufts 1971, is a freelance writer in Taiwan.


Published on Taipei Times :
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2013/03/13/2003556936

Suicide is usually a private, impulsive response to extreme personal
stress or anxiety, and is carried out, in most cases, in the confines
of a person’s home or office, far from the glare of photographers and
news reporters.

However, for more than 100 Tibetans who have committed suicide in
public by dousing themselves with gasoline and setting themselves on
fire — “self-immolation” is the Western media’s polite word for this —
such actions were intentionally public and carry an important message.

Yet who is listening, and are the Tibetan protests having any impact?

victornunnally
victornunnally

Free Tibet!!!!!  Free Tibet!!!!  FREE TIBET!!! China and Christians have enough space!  Dear Creator off all existence,please give Tibet a weapon of Mass Destruction.  A Voice perhaps. 

DarwinAkbar
DarwinAkbar

These people disgust me! The Tibetans already have enough to deal with, from Communist thugs to climate change. The last thing they need are stupid American Christians going over there to compete with Communist thugs who is better at the destruction of Tibetan culture.

PastorMing
PastorMing

Dalai Lama Quotes


1- Happiness is not something ready-made. It comes from your own actions.

2- If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them.

3- If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

4- My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.

5- Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.

6- The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual’s own reason and critical analysis.

7- We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.

8- We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves.

9- Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.

10- If you have fear of some pain or suffering, you should examine whether there is anything you can do about it. If you can, there is no need to worry about it; if you cannot do anything, then there is also no need to worry.

11- If you don’t love yourself, you cannot love others. You will not be able to love others. If you have no compassion for yourself then you are not able of developing compassion for others.

12- Human potential is the same for all. Your feeling, “I am of no value”, is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You are deceiving yourself. We all have the power of thought – so what are you lacking? If you have willpower, then you can change anything. It is usually said that you are your own master.

13- We must recognize that the suffering of one person or one nation is the suffering of humanity. That the happiness of one person or nation is the happiness of humanity.

14- Through violence, you may ‘solve’ one problem, but you sow the seeds for another.

15- As people alive today, we must consider future generations: a clean environment is a human right like any other. It is therefore part of our responsibility toward others to ensure that the world we pass on is as healthy, if not healthier, than we found it.

16- To conquer oneself is a greater victory than to conquer thousands in a battle.

17- There is a saying in Tibetan, “Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength.”
No matter what sort of difficulties, how painful experience is, if we lose our hope, that’s our real disaster.

18- The creatures that inhabit this earth-be they human beings or animals-are here to contribute, each in its own particular way, to the beauty and prosperity of the world.

19- A spoon cannot taste of the food it carries. Likewise, a foolish man cannot understand the wise man´s wisdom even if he associates with a sage.

20- In our struggle for freedom, truth is the only weapon we possess.

DavidBeach
DavidBeach

I have only recently opened my eyes to China, so I am unqualified to comment on the cultural or political dynamics related to this article. I was raised as a Christian, but not an evangelical denomination. In my opinion, if you lie to promote Christianity you are a hypocrite peddling a business and “the ends justify the means” will not mitigate that sin. However, my main motivation for posting to this article is the dismay I felt reading that trusting people in Xining were betrayed by the ugly Americans they thought were friends. I have had the pleasure of meeting people of various cultures as I visited their counties. Many times I have been invited to their homes. Without exception I was made to feel welcome, comfortable and at ease. What these people experienced is simple deplorable, even more so that it was wrapped in the guise of religion. I am proud to be a United States citizen, but that feeling is a little tarnished at the moment.

StopDalaiLamaCult
StopDalaiLamaCult

Tibetan Buddhism is stuck in the Medieval time; its West manifestation looks more like a Cult (Heavensgate, Davidian, and Jonestown, etc.) these days. 

StopDalaiLamaCult
StopDalaiLamaCult

To those New-Age liberals, conversion of Christian or Jew to Buddhist is Hollywood-ishly cool, while conversion of Tibetan version of Buddhist (According the Priest in Denver Temple, a Japanese fellow, Tibetan Buddhism is "for professionals") or Muslim to Christian should be condemned  What strange a concept!  Some of these people called Christianity "superstitious." What about Tibetan version of Buddhism with its theocratic (like Shiite Islam)  trappings?

Sunni vs Shiite

Catholic vs Protestant

Tibetan Buddhism vs the rest (China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Burma, etc.)

LamSam
LamSam

Chinese government has failed to realized that the spread Christianity is a much bigger threat then instability in Tibet in the long term

straydog
straydog

Preaching the 'holy' word....failing to realize that no one wants to listen. 

That's why fundamental Christians must go out as missionaries and use leverage (ie: free teachings, incentives, ect.) to get their message across---because no one would listen otherwise. If you go to a poor, desolate area and give people things in return for listening/accepting your views/religion, of course you're going to have converts--but not for the right reasons.

If you want to believe in religion of any variety, that's fine and certainly your right (and freedom) to do so, but you do NOT have the right to force that religion, or its message, onto any other person. Why do Christians believe they are above this simple fact? It's not a matter of religion or not religion in this regard, but simply a common decency and respect issue. The message Christian fundamentalist have is simple: My religion is better than yours. And that's a terrible view for a supposed religion of love and acceptance to have.

Johnson
Johnson

It is interesting to read the writings below of Bill Rawlings and others of similar persuasion. When confronted with Biblical evidence for support of all sorts of horrible things, e.g., killing young women, slavery, and so on, they refuse to explain how to deal with such horrible Biblical injunctions. And how would teaching Tibetans, or anyone else for that matter, benefit them? What do they believe? This is what makes some Christians so frightening: if given free rein, who knows what horrible things they might visit upon us all with Biblical justification. In addition to not telling us how to deal with these verses (what to believe and what not to believe in the Bible), they attack people. For example, Rawlings accuses those who don't agree with him as being evil. I do know Christians who are full of love and compassion and share honestly what they believe, which isn't stoning women to death who are not virgins when they marry, with anyone who asks. You always want to know more when someone seems full of love and compassion. Bill Rawlings is a very frightening person. He seems to have no love for anyone but himself and seems full of venom. I don't want to believe what he believes, whatever it may be, because it is so ugly. Bill Rawlings is a fundamentally dishonest person because he does not explain how to deal with the Bible nor does he explain what he believes and how that jives with the Bible. While it's wonderful that his son got better, it's unlikely that this is because of a single prayer, as Bill Rawlings believes. If prayer is so powerful, then the world would have no ills. 



MargaritaHinksoni
MargaritaHinksoni

"Jason compares the Kingdom of God to an outstretched hand available for anyone to “grab.” But for most Tibetans grasping the hand of Jesus is a moot point. Some might adopt him as one of a pantheon of gods; others simply find his story unimpressive."  Please note - there are NO gods in Buddhism, so it is an error of understanding by the writer to state 'a pantheon of gods' comment.  And I suspect this is also what the Christian missionaries are failing to comprehend and can't understand why their success rate is so low lol.



EQ8Rhomes
EQ8Rhomes

Religious evangelism is passé and cruel cultural abduction of the individual mind. To Evangelicals: Look after the flock you have already. Mind snatching is NOT cool.

You think all of us should be in total conformity with you, but you only fool yourselves. 

rihannk
rihannk

Christinaity is based on truth and love.  Their actions speak of fraud and manipulation.  

The actions of these christians are nothing better than the buddhists that they are trying to convert.  The Tibetan buddhist monks favourite trick is to exploit their own (already oppressed) people by subjecting them to all sorts of rituals such as prostrating themselves in the dirt around temples.  Going from house to house claiming to ward off evil spirits and then taking the family's money in order to ward off and protect against these evil spirits.

Any religion or philosophy oppressing their people is not inspired by a just god.


liberlfeces
liberlfeces

anything is better than what the pile of gooey sht liberal worships. itself. death to the liberals and the satan that farts them.

Asitis
Asitis

It makes me want to go there and take the garden hose out and run these delusional fanatics off the same way I would when they come banging on my door to spread their superstitious nonsense 

rymnd87
rymnd87

Chinese communist party colluding with fanatic christian missionaries, what strange bedfellows they make! It is sad to see radical christians targeting a culture already under threat, if they were man enough they could try their luck with people professing the Islamic faith, that would be a true test for their Jesus/Yahweh whatever god. If they ever try, the sword would be out and the western missionaries would jump on the first plane out of the country! I really liked the young woman's comment at the end, she is not buying the foreign snake oil!!

solarbuddy
solarbuddy

This infantile article tells us much more about Clarissa Sebag-Montefiore than it does the state of Christianity and Christian missions in Tibet. She is wildly misinformed in such areas as her odd apocalyptic understanding of the nature of the Great Commission; the idea that "mainstream missionaries" are all about "good works," and other key issues.  She seems to take it for granted that proper missionaries confine their efforts to meeting humanitarian needs, and that "bad" ones try to convert Buddhists to Christianity.  I understand the cultural prejudices that probably shaped Ms. Sebag-Montefiore's ideas, but one would hope that a professional journalist might at least aspire to a modest level of understanding on the history and intent of post-Reformation protestant missions.

I have had personal contact with many Tibetan Buddhists who recognized that they actively desired the "living water" available in Christianity, and without coercion, reward, or any external factor embraced historic Christianity with a depth and vigor that puts tepid European-American Christians to shame.

LeiFeng
LeiFeng

@mrbadexample2147 

giving up your freewill to a church or a monetary or particular leader of a faith is never to be commended.  Surrendering your life to God and God alone is the only act worthy of our free will.  To know Him and his redemption is everything regardless of what institution or traditions, culture, or name on a building you choose to go to or not go to.  But let us not let the failings of man, or the trappings of any culture identity keep us from a honest seeking truth of who God is.  Was the Buddha, who was an outsider wrong to bring his higher truth to the Bon Tibetans 2500 years ago because he asked them to consider what is true regardless of what their cultural identity was?  What truth and beauty would have been missed if the Bon Tibetans closed their ears to truths the Buddha had brought them or if the Buddha would have shared his truth, for fear something in the culture might change?  Did the Buddha bring the new message because he looked down on Tibetan culture?  Or did he do it out of a sincere belief that the truths he held stood to benefit the people?  So whether they be called Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist, or something else, though sometimes flawed, let us give them the benefit of the doubt and assume their motives are more sincere then corrupt and open our minds to conversation as the ancient Tibetans did when the Buddha spoke truth.  

LeiFeng
LeiFeng

@MickTen 

I wonder if the Buddha was invited by the Tibetan Bon people 2500 years ago and if all were comfortable with the challenges his new teaching presented.   

LeiFeng
LeiFeng

@MoolbLeinad 

No rather, do not praise something that is not praiseworthy or give attention to a corrupt and dangerous thinking.  Some of the victims of this mentality have been young monks who have been told this is a righteous and good act that will help win much attention for the cultural causes.  Regardless of the reasons, it is a sick and dangerous mentality that should not be encouraged by western media pouring attention over it.  There are other healthier ways of voicing a perspective the western media can give fair attention to, but do not encourage a cultural mentality of the glory of burning yourself or your youth.     

Babo
Babo

@StopDalaiLamaCult  You dont find a monk comes to your house, pulls your head and makes you kneel before bhudda, do you? The question here is not conversion. Sure, i am an atheist (hey, dont judge, i dont judge you either!) so i am fine with people willingly convert themselves. But this is a whole new disgusting thing to do.

StopDalaiLamaCult
StopDalaiLamaCult

@LamSam 


It all depends on what kind of Christianity being proselytized there.  If the Chinese Christians are all like White Southern Baptists in America South with its Patriotic, conservative, and pro-defense outlook, the Chinese government would welcome Christianity with open arms.

Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@Johnson My goodness Johnson, you didn't take the time to read the scripture I gave, did you?  Hebrews 8:7-13.  You can Google it if you don't have a Bible.  There is a New Covenant of Love!  It took the place of the Old Covenant of Law and Judgement!  I have a theory of why the new covenant replaced the old, but it is just an opinion.  I am not God.  God is holy and sin cannot be in His presence.  I believe it took over a thousand years of trying to live under the law for humans to realize that they cannot.  The only hope is grace and forgiveness through the perfect sacrifice for our sins, Jesus Christ, who because of his ability to atone for our sins, allows us to enter into the holy presence of God.  Yes, God was harder in the Old Testament.  I am sorry you are living there.

By the way, you post false statements like "Who knows what horrible things they (Christians) might visit upon us with Biblical justification."  Of course, you know that to be false.  Did I not just say that the New covenant is full of grace and forgiveness to those who believe?  Was not my first example about how Jesus forgave the woman who committed adultery and saved her from being stoned by the mob?

I'm sorry you feel I am frightening.  I think that you are frightened by the conviction that God is bringing into your life. I am pretty boring.

LeiFeng
LeiFeng

@MargaritaHinksoni

"Please note - there are NO gods in Buddhism" - you might want to consult the Dali Lama on that one as you are quite a bit misinformed.  He tells people which ones to worship and which ones to avoid.  Please do a wikipedia search on Tibetan Buddhism gods and learn the difference between Tibetan Buddhism which incorporated many of the Bon gods that predated Buddhism and other versions of Buddhism practiced in other parts of Asia.  Sometimes it is dangerous to assume others are more ignorant then yourself (sorry that was too mean, but too funny to resist, lol).  


LeiFeng
LeiFeng

@EQ8Rhomes 

The Buddha was cruel when he brought a truth to the Tibetans?  The evil flock snatcher from India seeking conformity? 

EQ8Rhomes
EQ8Rhomes

@liberlfeces : Evangelical feces? There, I have lowered myself to your level, just for effect!

Myrtle
Myrtle

@liberlfeces Are you a Christian? 

Would you be so kind as to give a definition of a liberal?

How many liberals do you think there are in the world and what do you think, from a Christian point of view, should be done with them?

Is "sht' a countable or uncountable noun? I sense some issues with English grammar in your prose. 

EQ8Rhomes
EQ8Rhomes

@rymnd87 Ideological and pathological haters will prostitute themselves to attain their goals and bed with anyone.

The_Pacifist
The_Pacifist

@solarbuddyAre the Christians attempting to do in Tibet what they did in North American to the native Americans?  Would Jesus advocate a convert-or-die mentality?  

If people want to be Christian, then be Christian and leave everyone else alone.  If Christianity is so great, then people will flock to it and you would not need to try so hard to convert people.  

Myrtle brings up some good points.  I would like to add that the Christian Bible condones slavery.  Deuteronomy.  Exodus 21:7-11, just to name a few passages.  Perhaps the Christians intend to enslave the Tibetan Buddhists that do not convert... 

Myrtle
Myrtle

@solarbuddy Does the 'living water' available in Christianity also include stoning women to death who were not virgins when they married? Does this 'living water' also include putting to death people who work on Sundays? This would seem to be 'deathly water' rather than 'living water'. If you no longer believe these Biblical injunctions, inspired by the Holy Ghost, please inform us as to what parts of the Bible should be disregarded and on what basis. Many Tibetans would be puzzled as to why women who are not virgins when they get married should be stoned to death in public, and why if they, for example, were herding their livestock on Sunday, they should be executed. 

leinadmoolb
leinadmoolb

@LeiFeng @MoolbLeinad LefFeng, i respect your beliefs but CHristians are as bad or worse than communists. There is no Jesus there is no God. wake up girl or boy. u have been brainwashed by the Western people. JEsus was a fake god. wake up 

LamSam
LamSam

@StopDalaiLamaCult @LamSam Spreading Christianity not only a threat to the CCP, it is also a threat to chinese culture and society. I believe that behind these missionaries is the US government, who is trying to change the fabric of Chinese society in order influence chinese people and to manipulate them. After all, Christianity is an American game.

PastorMing
PastorMing

@Bill_Rawlins @Johnson Keep reading, Ayatollah Rawlings....just keep scrolling down. I know you are frightened by what Johnson, Myrtle, and others are showing you about the Bible, which you obviously haven't read much. The conviction that you are horribly wrong is probably dawning on  you and you can only flail out at anyone who brings this to your attention. 

MargaritaHinksoni
MargaritaHinksoni

@LeiFeng @MargaritaHinksoni  Funny ha ha... as a buddhist practitioner I have no need to consult HH the Dalai Lama. Siddhartha is sufficient. There have been many highly enlightened persons in the 2500 year history of the practice and their stories have been given mythic dimensions in the re-telling over centuries. They did no claim to be gods, nor was the original Buddha a god. There are no gods in Buddhism. Even the teachings of the Buddha are only a raft to get to the other side, then relinquished. You should try to gain some knowledge.


Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@The_Pacifist - Jesus commanded his disciples to spread the gospel.  Some people have not heard it.  Your attempt to try to use the slavery argument for Christians is a falsehood, but then again you already know that.   I agree with you that if Christianity is so great, then people will flock to it, which is happening all over the world.  Those who are full of sin hate the light.  Please embrace it.  You will find happiness there.

Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@Myrtle - I am sorry that have no understanding of Christianity.  Are you not aware of the story in the Bible where Jesus saved the woman from stoning who was caught in the act of adultery.  He did not want her stoned, but he did say, 'Go and sin no more', and the mob let her go.  Read Hebrews 8:7-13 which ends with the instruction: "When he (God) said 'a new covenant', he has made the first obsolete."  You are no longer bound by Old Testament Law, but please read the New Testament to understand salvation by Grace (Ephesians 2:8-10).  If your heart is open, you will find the truth.  The key is love.  If your heart is full of evil, then you will hate the light.  Please, discard the evil in your life and embrace the light, which is God's love and his gift to us: Jesus Christ.

PastorMing
PastorMing

@Bill_Rawlins Ayatollah Rawlings: So long! It's clear that you learned things that the Bible said that you were unaware of before. It doesn't matter on what site these postings are from, what matters is that they are all in the Bible. At least you don't dispute that. It's predictable that you have decided to throw in the towel for the simple reason that these Bible passages cannot be reconciled and you know it. We all hope mightily that one day your mind will be open, that you will read ALL the Bible, not just the portions that you find appealing and support your simplistic vision of what you believe, and get more education. Let truth ring from every cranny of your heart and brain, from every organ and every cell in your body, let truth in. And when this happens, when you allow truth to permeate your being, you will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Jews, Gentiles, Protestants,Catholics, Tibetan Buddhists, Mulisms--all will be able to join hands and sing "We are Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" because we know what truth is and it isn't what Ayatollah Rawlings believes!

Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@PastorMing -  I could easily refute all the points that you cut and pasted from your favorite anti-Bible Web Site, but you would not be interested in hearing them.  I pray one day that heart will be open.  Good luck and goodbye.

PastorMing
PastorMing

@Bill_Rawlins @PastorMingAyatollah Rawlings: So long! It's clear that you learned things that the Bible says that you were unaware of before and this has made your delusion uncomfortable for you. This is because evil is clutching you very hard. It doesn't matter on what site these postings are from, what matters is that they are all in the Bible. At least you don't dispute that. It's predictable that you have decided to throw in the towel for the simple reason that these Bible passages cannot be reconciled and you know it and won't try. How shocking that you suggest the verses on the site mentioned above are not in the Bible! You come perilously close to being an unbeliever! We all hope mightily that one day your mind will be open, that you will read ALL the Bible, not just the portions that you find appealing and support your simplistic vision of what you believe, and get more education, particularly in the field of religion of which you know so very, very little--probably less than the number of angels that can dance on the point of a needle.Let truth ring from every cranny of your heart and brain, from every organ and every cell in your body, let truth in. And when this happens, when you allow truth to permeate your being, you will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, Taoists, Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Jews, Gentiles, Protestants,Catholics, Tibetan Buddhists, Mulisms--all will be able to join hands and sing "We are Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" because we know what truth is and it isn't what Ayatollah Rawlings believes!

Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@PastorMing - So you have proved that you can cut and paste from an unbelievers web site?  Yawn.  Apparently you don't believe the Bible, but you love to quote it?  You love to live in the Old Testament, yet I have shown you that we are not to live in it (Hebrews 8:7-13), but you won't accept that.  Nothing more I can do.  I hope you can break free of your anger.  Good luck and goodbye.

PastorMing
PastorMing

@Bill_Rawlins If you have multiple degrees in maths, why did you make such a simple mistake, as Myrtle pointed out? Are you confused about history? When slavery was officially abolished in the States? My goodness gracious, Ayatollah Rawlins, you are a vindictive sort--accusing people of being homosexual because they use that word in their message (and then telling them they are living in evil--but hastening to add that you don't judge, which of course you do), and then ACCUSING people of being Buddhist! Are you connected to Fred Phelps? A devotee of the late Jerry Fallwell? Are you one of the Christians that advocates that Obama is paving the way for the Anti-christ as does Pastor Robert Jeffress of First Baptist Dallas in Dallas, Texas? 

Oh, and Johnson forgot the 1st part of that material from 

http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

so I'm adding it here. I imagine that while studying for your degree in religion you either chose to ignore these points or else dismissed them, as they don't accord with your own agenda of demeaning whoever disagrees with you by saying that they don't know anything. Why would anyone want to be a Christian if they were not one and read your postings and, if they were a Christian, I imagine they would want to distance themselves from you as fast as possible. 

Here's the material, although I don't think you will read, since you seem convinced that your own reading of the Bible allows you to ignore large chunks:


 I hear so many Christians claim that the Old Testament is defunct because Jesus was the “lamb” to clear away its rules and regulations.  This is just another scapegoat Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god.  Their preachers spoonfeed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the Bible promotes.  I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored.  Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it!  After this section I shall list where the Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”  (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)  Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself.  None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever.  "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets.  He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."  (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law.  Mark.7:9-13  "Whoever curses father or mother shall die"  (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating.  He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.”  (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole.  The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell.  (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.”  This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@Myrtle - I have multiple degrees in mathematics and religion, so I have done more study than you have, I am sure.  Okay, so you found some racist Christians in the 1960's and that makes Christianity racist?  Really?  I am sure there are some axe-murderers with the name "Myrtle" but I don't think you are one.  Your constant sarcasm only points to the anger and evil in your heart.  Are those the values that Buddhism has brought to your life?  You say that you will be judged by the joy in your heart and those around you.  And your source for proclaiming that (supposed) fact is ?

Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@The_Pacifist: Please read my response to Myrtle above.  I was once like you.  I investigated many religions.  By the way, I have two degrees in Mathematics and two degrees in religion.  Buddhism ascribes too much power to the individual.  In truth, there is an external creator whom we are accountable to.  Buddhism is too self-focused.  Christianity is outward-focused - to people and to God (or it should be).  You may disagree with my simple analysis, but I have found the truth and I feel compelled to share it.  After my seven-year old son was instantly and miraculously healed of deafness with a prayer to Jesus Christ, I have no interest in other religions.

EQ8Rhomes
EQ8Rhomes

@Bill_Rawlins @Beijing: Today, slavery is more than owning, selling, sexually abusing, breeding with, and not paying slaves, and robbing them of education, language, dignity, heritage,  raping their daughters, and calling them N*gg**, and excluding them from employment high than "house N*gg**, and building an economy on their blood, sweat and land.

It is exploiting them in their own coun tries and dispossessing them!

Phuc the "Christian" and "Islamic" fundamentalist sickos--who just want land and power by robbing others of their autonomy!

joenbjerregaard
joenbjerregaard

The exegesis of the unbelievers is laughable. Pacifist, part of good exegesis is that you dont make interpretations that match half of what is being said and dont come up with interpretations nothing else in the Word supports. Jesus fullfilled the 'law and the prophets' by fullfilling them in himself, becoming the author salvation.

The arrogance of the unbelievers is puzzling. Ít takes as long time and work to get a full understanding of Bible theology and culture as it does to become doctor in a given science. How do you unbelievers expect you can understand anything of it? Just mindless quoting.

maeyll2759
maeyll2759

@Bill_Rawlins @Beijing Perhaps a homosexual ??? Sad...

Myrtle
Myrtle

@Bill_Rawlins @Beijing Bill, take some math lessons. I was in the American South during the 1960s on business trips and MOST of the White Christians I met were racist. They were opposed to Civil Rights, big supporters of George Wallace. Well, back to the math lesson: the Civil War ended in 1865. 2013 minus 1865 does not equal hundreds. Review your math, Bill, and review your Bible! I feel that you are attacking the messengers of anything different than what you believe in, although we don't know what that is, because you are highly selective in what of the Bible you trumpet and what you don't follow. You are probably living in enormous torment because you are doing things that you do not think you should be doing. For example, perhaps you are harboring lust--the terrible fires are blazing red hot--the fires stoked by enjoying or wish that you could enjoy the lewdness of the flesh; the lusts associated with gluttony; or whatever. However, as a person who has been born again, you feel this is not possible if your sanctification was true blue. This makes you question the very nature of your salvation and new life with your Savior. I urge you, Bill, to turn from your wickedness and ignorance--to no longer believe that the world will only be a good and sweet place when everyone is just like you and believes only as you do. Accept that people can be different. Accept that both black cats and white cats can catch mice; that a square egg and an oblong egg might be equally delicious when soft-boiled, gently cracked open, and a pinch of salt and a dash of black pepper are added and then squashed on rye bread. You will be judged not by the what you say, but by the joy in your heart by those around you and I sense little joy, unless it comes from badgering and hectoring those who are different from you. Repent of your ignorance, resolve to return to school, for example, night classes in the history of religion at your nearest college, such as a community college. Take lessons in Buddhism--anything you learned there would probably be something you don't know now. And, as mentioned earlier, you could throw in some math lessons, too. I won't give up on you, Bill. There's still hope that the dark caverns of your heart can be brought into the light and made bright, that the drear hallways can be made shiny. We all seriously wish you well--may you face shine with the radiance of many burning bushes in the wilderness!

The_Pacifist
The_Pacifist

@Bill_RawlinsThe U.S. Civil War was fought to free the slaves who were brought to the U.S. from "other lands" i.e. Africa.  Leviticus 25:44.  That was a short 150 years ago.  The Christian Bible never condemns slavery, like is does pork.  Instead, it gives advice on how to be a good slave and slave master...  So much for moral superiority! 

Whether or not you currently know of any Christians who embrace slavery is immaterial.  The point is that, as a Christian, you should believe that the Old and New Testament are both the word of God.  If this is true, then you accept every word of these books without any change or misinterpretation, and no cherry picking.  If you accept every word, then you accept that the Christian God condones slavery...  Even if the slavery involves a father selling his daughter into slavery.   

"And if a man SELLS HIS DAUGHTER to be a FEMALE SLAVE, she shall not go out as the MALE SLAVES do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights." Exodus 21:7-11

And, yes, the Old Testament applies today, as commanded by Jesus himself.  Matthew 5:17; Matthew 5:18-19, as well as other passages.  As a Christian and follower if Jesus, you should know this, as well as the other passage referenced above.  

Have you even read the Bible, Mr. Rawlins?  I am not a Christian for many reasons, such as I reject slavery, as well as the inferiority and subjugation of women, and I love bacon.  

Why would you feel you are being attacked by people who are merely citing passages of the Old and New Testament? When I read the responses above, I see some attacking, but I mostly see people reminding the messengers of the Gospel of the message...which, in some passages, is not a very good message... 

So, Mr. Rawlins, why do you not explain the passages of the Bible that are cited here?  What good is in these passages that needs to be taught to the Buddhists of Tibet?  

Have you read any texts about Buddhism?  It might do you some good...  "Buddhism differs from other religions and philosophies in that it respects individual investigation, lays stress on freedom of thought and develops the power of intelligence and wisdom."  



Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@Beijing - I don't know any Christians who embrace slavery.  Do you?  So you have to go back hundreds of years to find some who believed in slavery, and then ascribe their beliefs to the entire faith?  You take examples from the Old Testament and then ascribe them to today?

Let's get to the core of the matter.  You are probably living in sin, perhaps a homosexual, and you are going into attack mode on the messengers of the gospel.  Your battle is not with the messengers.  It is with God. You will not be judged by me or any other.  You will be judged by God's Word on that day.  I seriously wish you well.

Beijing
Beijing

@Bill_Rawlins @The_Pacifist Why do you not deal with the support many American Christians gave slavery?  You are telling a falsehood to suggest that The_Pacifist is engaging in falsehoods. To help educate you, I paste the below. Please read through carefully. It will help you flock to the truth and in the truth, you will find happiness!

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1992/issue33/3324.html

Biblical Reasons

• Abraham, the “father of faith,” and all the patriarchs held slaves without God’s disapproval (Gen. 21:9–10).

• Canaan, Ham’s son, was made a slave to his brothers (Gen. 9:24–27).

• The Ten Commandments mention slavery twice, showing God’s implicit acceptance of it (Ex. 20:10, 17).

• Slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, and yet Jesus never spoke against it.

• The apostle Paul specifically commanded slaves to obey their masters (Eph. 6:5–8).

• Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master (Philem. 12).

Charitable and Evangelistic Reasons

• Slavery removes people from a culture that “worshipped the devil, practiced witchcraft, and sorcery” and other evils.

• Slavery brings heathens to a Christian land where they can hear the gospel. Christian masters provide religious instruction for their slaves.

• Under slavery, people are treated with kindness, as many northern visitors can attest.

• It is in slaveholders’ own interest to treat their slaves well.

• Slaves are treated more benevolently than are workers in oppressive northern factories.

Social Reasons

• Just as women are called to play a subordinate role (Eph. 5:22; 1 Tim. 2:11–15), so slaves are stationed by God in their place.

• Slavery is God’s means of protecting and providing for an inferior race (suffering the “curse of Ham” in Gen. 9:25 or even the punishment of Cain in Gen. 4:12).

• Abolition would lead to slave uprisings, bloodshed, and anarchy. Consider the mob’s “rule of terror” during the French Revolution.

Political Reasons

• Christians are to obey civil authorities, and those authorities permit and protect slavery.

• The church should concentrate on spiritual matters, not political ones.

• Those who support abolition are, in James H. Thornwell’s words, “atheists, socialists, communists [and] red republicans.”


Johnson
Johnson

@Bill_Rawlins @Myrtle

21) Can we wear long hair?  Judges 13:5 & Numbers 6:5 encourages people to grow their hair and insists it is a source of strength.  1 Corinthians 11:14 calls long hair a “shame”.

22) Should we circumcise males?  Genesis 17:10  “This is my covenant which ye shall keep between me and you and thy seed after thee: Every man and child among you shall be circumcised.  Clearly this demands circumcision, yet Galatians 5:2 says “Behold, I Paul, say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

23) Are there certain kinds of foods we should not eat?  Deuteronomy 14:2-8 lists several animals that we are NOT to eat because they are “unclean”, “chew the cud” and “divide the hoof”. Yet Genesis 9:3 & 1 Corinthians 10:25 insists there is nothing we can’t eat. Romans 14:14 says: “There is nothing unclean of itself.”

24) Can we take oaths?  Numbers 30:2, Genesis 21:23-24, 31, 31:53 & Hebrews 6:13 says that we can take oaths and encourages it.  Matthew 5:34 says “swear (make an oath) not at all.”

25) Can we get married?  Genesis 2:18, 1:28, Matthew 19:5 & Hebrews 13:4 all insist marriage is honorable.  Marriage is disapproved and scorned in 1 Corinthians 7:1 & 7:7-8.

26) Can we commit adultery?  Exodus 20: 14 “thou shalt not commit adultery.”  Also see Hebrews 13:4.  Now look at Numbers 31:18, Hosea 1:2 & 2:1-3 where adultery is advocated by God.

27) Can we drink alcohol?  Proverbs 31:6-7, 1 Timothy 5:23 & Psalms 104:15 all encourage drinking and intoxication.  Proverbs 20:1 & 23:31-32 discourage drinking and intoxication.

28) Do women have rights?  Genesis 3:16 “And thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”  1 Timothy 2:12 says a woman must not teach, remain silent and must be subjugated to her man.  1 Corinthians 14:34 & 1 Peter 3:6 both say that women have limited rights and are under control of their men.  Judges 4:4, 14-15, 5:7, Acts 2:18 & 21:9 all tell of powerful women who were not subjugated by men and were not punished for their authority of men.

29) Should we obey our masters with usurped authority?  Colossians 3:22-23 & 1 Peter 2:18 says we should. 1 Corinthians 7:23 “Be not ye the servants of men.”  Also see Matthew 4:10 & 23:10 which say we should not submit usurped to our masters.

30) Was the law of the Old Testament destroyed by Christ’s crucification?  Luke16:16, Ephesians 2:15 & Romans 7:6 says that the old law is no longer binding.  Yet Matthew 5:17-19 and MANY other verses say that the old law is forever binding.  If you want to see the many verses that command we follow the old law please consult the upper portion of this page.

31) Should we swear an oath?  Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath…he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”  Genesis 21:22-24 & 31 “…swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me…And Abraham said, I will swear…Wherefore he called that place Beersheba [“Well of the oath”]; because there they sware both of them.”  Hebrews 6:13-17 “For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself…for men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.  Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability ofhis counsel, confirmed it by an oath.” See also Genesis 22:15- 19, Genesis 31 :53, & Judges I 1 :30-39.  So apparently it is okay to swear an oath, we even do this on the Bible in American courts.  Just try and forget these verses: Matthew 5:34-37 “But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven…nor by the earth…Neither shalt thou swear by thy head…But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

James 5:12 “…swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

32) Do we keep the Sabbath?  Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.” Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”  Numbers 15:32-36  “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”  Each of these contradict Isaiah 1:13  “The new moons and Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity.“  John 5:16 “And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the Sabbath day.  “Colossians 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days.”

33) Should we make graven images?  Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven…earth ... water.”  Leviticus 26:1 “Ye shall make ye no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone.”  Deuteronomy 27:15 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.”  Okay, I got it I shouldn’t produce a thing in fear of making a graven image, but wait: Exodus 25:18 “And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.”  I Kings 7:15-16 & 23-25 “For he [Solomon] cast two pillars of brass…and two chapiters of molten brass…And he made a molten sea…it stood upon twelve oxen ... [and so on]”


Johnson
Johnson

@Bill_Rawlins @Myrtle

Law Contradictions of the Bible:

10) Shall we obey the law?  Romans 13:1-7 says quite clearly that Christians are to submit to the law and regard it as the institution of God.  1 Peter 2:13-14  “Submit your self to every ordinance of man ... to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors.”  Matthew 22:21 “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s.” Also see Titus 3:1. Matthew 23:2-3 & Ecclesiastes 8:2 This leads one to assume that Christians must and should obey the law, yet look at these verses which contradicts what I just sited.  Acts 5:29  “We ought to obey God rather then men.”  Exodus 1:17-20 shows God punishing the midwives for following their rulers instead of God.  Also see Daniel 3:16-18, 6:7-10, Acts 4:26 & 27, Mark 12:38-40, Luke 23:11, 24 & 33-35 which all say the law should be ignored.  Now we know why Christians get away with their selective morality so often.

11) Should we steal?  (Exodus 20:15 & Leviticus 19:13)  Stealing is absolutely forbidden.  Yet, Exodus 3:21-22, 12:35-36 & Luke 19:29-34 all promote stealing.

12) Should we judge?  Jesus is quoted in Matthew 7:1-2: “Judge not, that ye be not judged.  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged.”  Also see Luke 6:37 & 1 Corinthians 5:12.  Now take a look at “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment”  (John 7:24).  Also note 1 Corinthians 5:12 & 6:2-4.

1 3) Should we covet?  Exodus 20:17 says, “Thou shalt not covet . . . anything that is thy neighbor’s,” while 1 Corinthians 12:31 says, “Covet earnestly the best gifts.”  So, are we or are we not to covet?

14) Is lying okay?  Exodus 20:16.  Proverbs 12:22 & Revelations 21:8 all say lying is forbidden.  Joshua 2:4-6, Exodus 1:18-20 & 1 Kings 22:21-22 all support lying.

15) Can we kill?  Exodus 20:13 says “thou shalt not kill”.  Exodus 32:27, Numbers 31, and THOUSANDS of other verses show God commanding us to kill.

16) Can we own slaves?  Leviticus 25:45 “Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy … and they shall be your possession… they shall be your bondmen forever.”  Genesis 9:25 “And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.”  Exodus 21:2 & 7 “If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing…  And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.”  Joel 3:8 “And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it.”  Luke 12:47-48 [Jesus speaking] “And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.  But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.”  Colossians 3:22

    “Servants, obey in all things your masters.”  So obviously the Biblical God thinks slavery is right, right?  Just look at these: Isaiah 58:6  “Undo the heavy burdens... let the oppressed go free, ... break every yoke.”  Matthew 23:10 “Neither be ye called Masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.”  (Also see Exodus 22:21 & 21:16) Let it be known here that pro-slavery Bible verses were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa.  There are more pro-slavery verses than cited here.  I simply do not have the room to post all of them.

17) What about Improvidence?  Improvidence is enjoined in Luke 12:3 “Sell that ye have and give alms.” also in Luke 6:30 & 35 “Give to every man that asketh of thee, and of him that taketh away thy goods, ask them not again ... And lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward shall be great.” Also note Matthew 6:28, 31 & 34. Improvidence is condemned in I Timothy 5:8 “But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. “ Also see Proverbs 13:22.

18) What does the law say about anger?  Ephesians 4:26 says “Be ye angry and sin not not.”  Anger is disapproved in Ecciesiastes 7:9 “Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry; for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.” Proverbs 22:24 “Make no friendship with an angry man.”  Also see James 1:20.

19) Are we to let our good works be seen?  Matthew 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works.”  This contradicts verse Matthew 6:1 , “Take heed that you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them.”

20) Should we pray in public? 1 Kings 2:22, 54 & 9:3 shows the Lord is joyed by public prayer and listens intently.  Matthew 6:5-6 condemn public prayer and command people keep it a secret.


Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@Myrtle - I don't believe I could say it more clearly than Hebrews 8:7-13:  The Old Testament law is gone.  "A more perfect covenant" has replaced it.  You keep saying to me: "YOU have chosen to reject portions of the Bible".  I have not on my own - I am following the guidance of Jesus, who said "I have fulfilled the (Old covenant) Law", and the Apostle Paul who wrote the book of Hebrews (the scripture I have referenced above).  I am following their guidance.  If you do not understand this point, there is no more discussion to be had with you.  Good luck!

EQ8Rhomes
EQ8Rhomes

@Bill_Rawlins @Myrtle : Bill: Quit preaching at Myrtle! These fundamentally ill evangelists are NO JESUS! They want to annihilate the Buddhists for the Chinese regime os China can say there are no Buddhist self immolation protests any more! Problem Solved! See how great and loving the Chinese state is? Now we have Tibet and  no more Buddhist protests!

Religious fundamentalists also fed on the carcass of the Soviet Union! They are hyenas and vultures in the worst sense.

Myrtle
Myrtle

@Bill_Rawlins @Beijing But, Bill, believe which parts? YOU apparently, have decided to reject certain portions of the Bible. You are following your own way. Return to the path of obedience! Believe! Embrace the Bible--hook, line, and sinker. It's so much easier that way, although I don't think you'll find many supporters! 

Bill_Rawlins
Bill_Rawlins

@Beijing It is interesting that you capitalize the word YOU like I made up the book of Hebrews, and in particular Hebrews 8:7:13.  Read it yourself.  Believe it if you want, or disbelieve it if you want.  It comes from a higher authority than I.  Jesus said, "He who loves me obeys me."  That is the source of love.  Your sarcasm shows the anger in your heart.  Apparently, you have chosen to disregard the Bible and choose your own way. 

Beijing
Beijing

On what basis do you choose to disregard parts of God's Holy, Divinely Inspired Word? Isn't every word and every sentence in the Bible the truth? Who are YOU to say that certain portions of the Bible no longer apply and should be disregarded? Your feel-good equivocation is based on YOU picking and choosing verses to support your own point of view--based on what? Christians have done this for a very long time, e.g., historical Southern Baptist support for slavery, current Christians opposition to equal rights for homosexuality and brutal bullying, historical opposition to equality for women, and so on and so forth. It's hard to see the love here, although I suppose you define /love/ in a way that fits your agenda. I urge you to read the Bible more. Learn more about Christianity. Take some courses in Bible history and social production. If your heart is open you will find the truth. Disregard ignorance and open your mind and soul to knowledge, which will let your personality bloom like a burning bush in the wilderness! I urge you to go forth and sin no more! Stop hating the light! Disregard the evil in your life! Embrace knowledge!