Waging War at the Court of the Sultan of Sulu

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Rahman Roslan / Getty Images

A member of the Malaysian Special Forces Unit stands guard as a standoff continues between the Malaysian police and an armed group of Filipinos in Kampung Senallang Lama, Malaysia, March 13, 2013.

The Sultan of Sulu’s Manila home lies in a poor Muslim neighborhood in the south of the Philippine capital. Its high walls are festooned with royal banners weighted down by repurposed plastic soda bottles. Advertisements for “Septic Tank Plumbing Services” are posted next to a derelict Opel station wagon, now the only fixture on the sidewalk out front. In early February, when armed supporters of Sultan Jamalul Kiram III landed in Malaysian Borneo to enforce an ancestral-land claim, media flocked here to meet the low-profile leader, whose forebears once held sway over the Sulu Archipelago in the southern Philippines. (These days, there is no civil power attached to the role.) TV news crews crowded the sidewalk around-the-clock as, hundreds of kilometers away, the sultan’s men were locked in a clash with Malaysian security forces that has since killed over 70 people and displaced scores.

(MORE: Malaysia: At Least 26 Dead as Police Raid Sabah Siege)

Today, the street outside the sultan’s crumbling residence is quieter, but the fallout from his brazen campaign has not settled. As Malaysian security forces continue their mopping up operations against the sultan’s men in eastern Sabah province, a fresh wave of fighters has reportedly entered the fray. According to Abraham Idjirani, spokesman for the Royal Sultanate of Sulu and North Borneo, some 400 armed men have managed to breach a joint Malaysian-Filipino naval blockade in the Sulu Sea. It’s not yet clear who sent them, though the sultanate asserts they are from Mindanao, where leaders of the southern Philippine militant group Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) have pledged support. On March 31, the MNLF threatened a “long, protracted war” if Malaysian forces continued their pursuit of the self-proclaimed Royal Army of Sulu.

The Sabah affair is emblematic of territorial disputes that have long overshadowed the region. Centuries before the modern states of Malaysia and the Philippines came into being, the islands of the Sulu Sea, and part of resource-rich Sabah, were ruled by the Sultanate of Sulu. In 1878, the sultan made a fateful deal to lease Sabah to a British commercial interest; the territory was later annexed by the British crown and, in 1963, became part of an independent Malaysia. Now the Kiram family wants it back. It still receives roughly $1,700 a year in rent from Kuala Lumpur, but views the sum as ridiculous given how profitable the land is and the status afforded to other sultans in Malaysia. (For reference, Sultan Kiram and the Sultan of Brunei, once named the world’s richest man, share the same great-great grandfather.)

These days, Sultan Kiram, 74, could use some extra cash. On a recent morning, he was away at the hospital for one of his biweekly dialysis sessions. Fatima, his panguian — to use the term bestowed on a sultan’s wife — insists that while “he’s still O.K.,” he’s not the fleet-footed tango dancer who dazzled her early in their marriage. A retired civil servant, she worked full-time for over 20 years to support the family while the sultan managed a modest seafood-exporting business. In between filling cuttlefish orders from Japan, he was called upon to help mediate domestic insurgencies. Photo albums on the coffee table show the sultan wearing his trademark brown sunglasses next to grim-faced MNLF rebels and government officers.

(MORE: Sabah Standoff: Diplomatic Drama After Filipino Militants Storm Malaysia)

Back in the 1970s, Fatima recalls urging her husband to also take up the gun. “I told him, ‘Why don’t you go the mountains and fight the [Malaysians]’ … you are only recognized if you are a rebel force,” she says. For years, the sultan countered that patience and diplomacy were the best course and wrote letters to officials, but to no avail. On Feb. 6, about 200 of his followers — some of them heavily armed — were dispatched to Sabah. A weeks-long impasse in a coastal village ended in bloodshed, as a Malaysian ground assault gave way to air strikes. The Sultan’s fighters and their commander, Agbimuddin Kiram, the sultan’s 70-year-old brother, melted into the jungle, where sporadic gun battles persist.

The crackdown has made a hard life even harder for the 800,000–plus Filipino migrant workers who help sustain Sabah’s booming palm-oil and petroleum industries. The Malaysian government, already facing criticism for harsh treatment of its migrant underclass, is accused by rights groups of widespread harassment of civilians as it moves to flush out the Royal Army. Dozens of homes have been destroyed and hundreds of Filipinos have fled abroad. Analysts warn that the toll will further aggravate anti-Malaysian sentiment in the southern Philippines, less than an hour away by boat.

With such valuable interests in the region and general elections on the horizon, the Malaysian government has shown no willingness to cede any ground. State officials, keen to project strength, have labeled the Royal Army “terrorists” and ignored the U.N.’s demands for a cease-fire. In Manila, President Benigno Aquino has tried to balance relations with Malaysia, a key ally and trading partner, with pressing political calculations at home as a midterm ballot nears. The sultan enjoys considerable standing among Muslims in the restive south of the country, and his claim to Sabah has become a matter of local pride.

(MORE: To Modernize, Can Malaysia Move Beyond Race?)

Sultan Kiram judges the incursion to be a partial success in that his cause finally has the world’s attention. “I regret that people have died,” he says, moments after returning from his hospital treatment, walking with a cane. “However, we must make a sacrifice to enjoy the fruits that are rightfully ours.” He would not (or could not) say who the new fighters who have joined his army were, only that they were “volunteers” going to Sabah to seek “revenge for their brothers” killed by Malaysian forces. “We cannot stop people now,” he adds, somewhat cryptically, “but peace is our hope.”

The sultan says his people will hold out as long as it takes, but time may not be on his side. At midday his voice was faint and, behind the signature dark glasses, one of his eyes was fully shut. A handful of local journalists who by now had gathered outside to interview him would have to wait a while longer. The sultan needed a nap.

75 comments
MerryJules
MerryJules

...and is Philippines able to pay Malaysia back for all the investments / development in Sabah? How convenient ~ after we've built roads, schools, churches, mosques, temples, houses, malls, oil rigs, resorts, etc etc... Sulu claims Sabah? If everyone had the same mindset as the self-proclaimed Sultan, the whole SEA would be at war. Should Brunei 'claim' Sarawak (which btw is richer than Sabah)? Should Malaysia claim Singapore? The list goes on and on... get your head out of your ass. The only way Sulu will get Sabah is if Malaysia evacuates Malaysians, bomb and flatten everything we've built, and shove the ashes down the Sultan's throat. 

sazmk17
sazmk17

This article is clearly bias.The author does not understand the facts. Th author neglected that these Filipino Sulus are just envious and oblivious of Malaysia. Filipinos have themselves to blame for the destitute condition the country has fallen, rife with corruption, counter insurgency, communist insurgents and rampant poverty. They are oblivious of history, but tries to live in history instead of reality.

The UN, after 8 March, just ignored the Sulus as no more than another terrorist group. While the UN recognized that Sabah right as part of the federation of Malaysia. The international community don't even bother as the Sulus have been known as pirates throughout its history. This is the only case where group of terrorists actually tried to use the international system to legitimize acts of terror.

Time should write a more balanced but opiniated article rather than this piece.

colesa2011
colesa2011

Excellent article. Since Malaysia is only "leasing" the land without consulting with the Sultan of Sulu, why doesn't Malaysia do the right thing and consult with the Sultan of Sulu to revise and amend the lease agreement for the "lease" payments of an embarrassing $141 per month to today's fair value of anywhere above $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month?

The region of Sabah owned and being leased by the Sultan of Sulu to Malaysia is about the size of Massachusetts here in the United States. Surely, not a single soul could rent the entire State of Massachusetts for just $141 dollars per month. That's absolutely ridiculous in this day and age.


They are robbing the Sultan of Sulu every year by more than $257,999,859 (million dollars) each month.  It is apparent to the entire World why there would be conflict, violence, and war between Malaysia vs the Sultan of Sulu and the Philippines.


Malaysia should stop robbing neighboring countries and foreign individuals by paying the proper lease payment of more than $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month.  Malaysia has a duty to recognize the injustice being done here and make it right.

JohnFordTesorero
JohnFordTesorero

@MerryJules  Why Malaysia has Deaf Ears to Return Sabah? Despite the validity of the case and the piles of documents that prooves the ownership of Sabah ,the proprietary ownership of the Sultanate of sulu and North Borneo, Malaysia is continually defying the Legality of the ownership of Sabah, because they knew that the political power of the Kingdom has been diminished. This gave an impromptu to Malaysia to seconded what the Philippine government has done to the once powerful Kingdom of Sulu and North Borneo to reduce into an ecclessiastical level. The leadership of the kingdom was practically diminished with the help of America, when the Philippine Republic was established.

Importantly, the generated income that Sabah is contributing to Malaysian economy is approximately one third of their per capita income. This economic glory that Malaysia enjoy to the rented land of BNBCC in 1878 could be the best business investment that can be envied by all the countries of the world. Malaysia is merely paying USD$1,500.oo dollars per year and making almost USD$ 12 billion dollars per year.

Malaysia being not a party to the Land Lease of 1878 nor British government is raking a cool 12 billion dollars per year with only a based capital equivalent to a price of a lap top computer. This is the prime reason of the hold to return Sabah, no sane country will probably return the duck that lay a golden eggs fo them but a near to acceptable level must be exercise. This extreme greed poised by Malaysia can be considered the "Mother of all Greed " country in the world or so to say in Guiness Book of world Record - The Greediest Country in the world is Malaysia ".

JohnFordTesorero
JohnFordTesorero

@sazmk17  Why Malaysia insist the ownership of sabah? All legal and historical facts and evidence is clear regarding the ownership of Sabah . Although the political government of Sabah is under the Federal government of Malaysia , proprietary ownership is undeniable that belongs to the Sultanate of Sulu and North Borneo.

It was said that 30% to 40% of Malaysia's GNP is coming from Sabah and therefore could be the main reason of Malaysia's hard headed stance to have it returned from the rightfill owner. Malaysia is said to be trying to politically cover up the Sabah issue by conveying all other means of political maneuver to divert the attention of the world into political issue. The war in Mindanao ,specially in Sulu islands is a known facts that is being financed by Malaysia for the last 20 years under the disguise of MNLF , MILF , Abu Sayyaf and other groups as diversionary tactic.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@sazmk17 

On the contrary, the author appears to understand the facts very well.  The author recognizes that the dispute and conflict you pointed out stems from stolen land mass rich in oil and minerals in which Malaysia currently occupies while leasing it from the Sultan of Sulu for just $141 dollars a month.  This is wrong sazmk17....leasing land property the size of Hawaii for just $141 a month is clearly inappropriate to fraudulent.


This stolen land mass rich in oil and minerals called North Borneo (Eastern part of Sabah) that belongs to the Sultan of Sulu is worth more than $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month.  I'm sure Malaysia does not want to pay such enormous lease payments, but it is only fair since Malaysia does not own the land.


Otherwise, you should expect people to fight for their rights over their land which you misinterpret as terrorism.  It's called fighting for justice.

 

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 Your lies is funny and interesting lets say for arguments sake it is rent did time stand still in 1878? Or did time continue? It must have continued because I am sure its not 1878 anymore right?

The amount maybe "embarrasing" for you but its what was signed back then ironically Malaysia did not have to pay anything at all and did it out of charity. In 1885 Sulu having surrendered its sovereignty over all its lands to Spain who granted North Borneo claim to the British in the Madrid protocols Sulu don't deny the 1885 treaty but claim Sabah was included however common sense would tell you if Sabah was still owned by Sulu then Spain would have aquired that ownership.

In 1903 the confirmatory deed was signed this replaced the 1878 treaty and confirmed the cession for the sum of 5300 M$ till the end of time it is not the fault of anyone but the munafiq Sultan for not taking into consideration rates of inflation. This was a considerable sum of money for land Kirams did not own at all so it was good at that time and still is.

In 1942 the Japanese invaded borneo and dissolved all ownership and treaties the land became theirs and was under their rule now can you tell me where the "owners" were? Oh of course no where near Sabah because they had no business there. Who reconquered Sabah? Oh it was the British who annexed the land just like the Americans annexed Sulu oh wait isn't that how Phillippines aquired Sulu? Oh wait of course it is

Why don't you stop your hypocrisy Sabah belongs to the people not to any fake sultans from a time long gone by why should malaysia pay anything to people who have no business in Sabah? All money belongs to the people of Sabah none of it to the greedy Kirams.

tell me how much money does Philippines pay Sultan of Sulu for Sulu archipelago? Answer None so save your hypocrisy if you want go and find yourself a time machine and go back to those times.

Oh FYI Sulu has no forts,settlements or any coins prooving its "ownership" of Sabah it only claimed Sabah through the series of rape,murder and robbery these pirates committed against the people of Sabah.

It is only fair that Sabah pays nothing to these scum history has moved on times have changed unfortunately your mind is stuck in the 19th century why not join us in the 21st century? You will like it 

sazmk18
sazmk18

The absurdity of your response only befuddles me more. Firstly, self-determination by Sabahans has been achieved in 1963. The Cobbold Commission and the UN SRSG that followed the mission confirmed this.

The money Malaysia pays is cede money, not rent money. Please dont try to twist the word, because it is well documented in all documents Malaysia attaches for the payment. Cede does not mean rent, but Sulus and Filipinos think they have a monopoly on English? Ridiculous nonsence. Therefore, this line of argument is irrelevant.

Thirdly, when you argue that Sabah is a rich land, we can see it already that you are greedy. Your line of argument is all about wealth and money, that shows your hunger for wealth that is not yours. Remember this, the situation the Philippine is in is your own. Dont deflect on other countries, especially Malaysia. Mindanao is rich too, but you people are too busy killing each other to notice it. Your tribal mentality puts you to buy weapons instead of education.

As I said, the Filipino Sulus are a bunch of terrorists. You land on Sabah, Malaysia and try to claim it! Imagine if the Navajo people or the Apaches claim Washington DC...and say its they're ancestral land. How ridiculous. Reality sinks in, authority is from the people, not from some defunct sultan who profess a perverted form of Islam that worship god knows what.

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @sazmk17 The "people" are a group of greedy thugs who belong to a family who have no rights of power or money over any of their territories. Sultan of Sulu has a claim right? Kirams cannot be Sultan as the last Kiram had no sons therefore his children cannot bear Sultans the People of Sulu chose another Sultan there are several claimants to the throne most of them disagree with this Kiram. Some of them even support the rights of Sabah.

the land mass was stolen by the Kirams they used robbery,rape,murder and threats to extract money like gangsters off the people when the british came their activities stopped therefore he SOLD the land off to aquire money as he needed money not useless land. the land was never stolen by the people who live there why should the people pay any money to this scoundrel?

The Kirams sold it off the 1903 confirmatory deed proves that in 1942 the land became conquered by Japan and Britian took it and annexed therefore the cession was null and void and Britian aquired it no Kiram came to help some of them even supported the Japanese. Malaysia does not want to pay this exorbitant amount as it is not fair nor right nor even legal this has been confirmed by UN.

All the Kirams will get is bullets if they ever dare send anyone to cause trouble in fact malaysias kindness was abused by the Kirams Malaysia did not have to pay the Kirams anything as Britain annexed the land and the people chose to form Malaysia so save your false history lesson.

There is no minterpretation this is terrorism and the people who were sent were not idealogists like say the Al Qaeda who kill themselves for a cause they believe in no this kind of terrorism is the worst kind it was about money by hired guns mercenaries. That is not justice the justice was delivered by the Malaysian army on the terrorists.

This article is poor based off one persons view and using only one source 

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1

You have been caught in your own lie Raja1.  How could cession for the sum of 5300 Malaysian dollars be true if Malaysia has already paid more than 5300 Malaysian dollars EVERY SINGLE YEAR?  That's because IT IS NOT the "sum" for cession, it is the annual lease fee increased by 300 Malaysian dollars from the original 1878 agreement of 5000 Malaysian dollars Raja1.

The fact, as this article confirms and that everyone already knows, is that Malaysia pays the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu $141 per month (equivalent to ~5000 malaysian dollars a year) for leasing North Borneo based on the basis of an agreement made between the Sultan of Sulu and a British company in 1878.  

It is now 2013 and yet you are still paying the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu just $141 per month for an enormous amount of land mass.  Do you intend continue to rip-off and rob the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu by ignoring and evading your responsibility to pay today's fair market value for leasing North Borneo at anywhere more than $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month?

We can all see how unsuccessful you are by trying to lie to us and derail us from the real matter.  But you can't deny that the amount of $141 per month that you are paying in comparison to $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month that you SHOULD be paying is truly "embarrassing".

What Malaysia and you are doing against the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu is WRONG.

The only right thing for you to do Raj1 is to pay the fair market value or stop paying the pathetic $141 a month rental fee so you can breach the contract agreement.






JohnFordTesorero
JohnFordTesorero

@sazmk18  The status of the territory of Sabah, previously known as North Borneo, is currently disputed between Malaysia and the Philippines. Presently, Sabah is one of the states that formed Malaysia in 1963. Despite that, the Philippines and the heirs of the Sultanate of Sulu have made claims to the territory though the claim is currently dormant.

On 23 January 1878, in exchange for modern weapons with which to keep Spanish colonizers away from the Sulu Archipelago, the ruler of Sulu, Sultan Jamalul Alam, leased the territory of North Borneo to Gustavus von Overbeck, an Austrian who was then the Austro-Hungarian Empire's consul-general in Hong Kong. This was accomplished via a trading company belonging to von Overbeck's British partner Alfred Dent, and later via the British North Borneo Company. Von Overbeck procured the necessary firearms and also paid the Muslim dignitary an annual sum equivalent to 5,000 Malaysian dollars (now known as ringgit).

The key word in the agreement was "padjak," which has been translated by AmericanDutch and Spanish linguists to mean "lease" or "arrendamiento." The agreement further states explicitly that the rights to the territory may not be transferred to a nation or another company without the sultan's expressed permission.

In 1906 and in 1920, the United States formally reminded Great Britain that North Borneo did not belong to the Crown and was still part of the Sultanate of Sulu. However, the British did turn Sabah into a Crown leased Colony. The Philippine Constitution of 1941 states that the national territory of the Philippines included, among other things, "all other areas which belong to the Philippines on the basis of historical rights or legal claims." Malaysia was federated in 16 September 1963. Even before Sabah was incorporated into Malaysia, the Philippines sent delegations to London reminding the British Crown that Sabah belonged to the Philippines.

Malaysia insists that Sabah is under the sovereignty of Malaysia based on the fact that under agreements that Baron von Overbeck and Alfred Dent secured with the Brunei Sultanate on 29 December 1877 and the Sulu Sultanate on 22 January 1878, the sultanate of Sulu agreed to lease Sabah to Malaysia. The British Crown renewed the lease on 15 July 1946, but finally ceded Sabah to Malaysia on 16 September 1963. Malaysia is still believed to be paying the annual rent to the Sultan of Sulu.

Malaysian control was further strengthened by two referendums: the first facilitated by the United Nations-backed Cobbold Commission, from February to April 1962 and the second before the formation of Malaysia in September 1963. Both referendums recorded 70% of Sabahan population voting for Sabah to be part of Malaysia. Which is deputed by some scholars to be invalid, in grounds that it was merely a sample election and that the local Sabahan's illiteracy where exploited into voting against the Philippines in the referendums.


Danvers
Danvers

@colesa2011 

You know what colesa2011, whatever it is that you are hanging onto, which to me is complete absurdity, you might want to let the ICJ to pass the verdict about whether Sabah belongs to the Phillipines or the Kirams or Malaysia!

What's most important is to let the rightful people of Sabah to decide whether they wanna be ruled by the blood-thirsty Kirams, your pathetic government or the weak Malaysian government. The residents of Sabah had spoken their mind decades ago, they can always do it again just like the Falkland Islanders who just recently voted to stay with the UK and not Argentina!

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @sazmk18 You are odd the treaty says cession in both 1878 and 1903 Brunei ceded Sabah for 12 000 M$ for life why has he not said anything? Because he understands the treaty is null and void because of superceding events including the secound world war.

Whatever the treaty says goes for that time the treaty said he gets money for life until the sun no longer rises then that it is what happens.

Malaysia follishly started repaying the Kirams out of kindness now that kindness will be dissolved the Kirams will get nothing.

Stop sitting there and inventing rules a life time payment is common for those times Sultans use to cede lands for life in oreder to continue payment especially if tributes from those territories dip.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@sazmk18 

I'm sorry sazmk18, there is no such thing as "cede" money that you have to pay every year.  That would be akin to a mortgage loan, a lease, or a rental fee.  All of which means, Malaysia does not own the property and still has to keep paying.


Also, if it were "cede" money, then perhaps you can tell us the Total Sale Price of the property sazmk18.  Please let us know where in the 1878 agreement identifies the Total Sale Price of the property that satisfies the complete cession of the property sazmk18.  If you are unable to identify the Total Sale Price, then you are misinterpreting the 1878 agreement just as the British government misinterpreted the "lease" agreement.

And if you can't see the enormous gap of difference between paying $141 monthly rental fee and over $258,000,000 (million dollars) monthly rental fee, then it is obvious to everyone here who is really greedy sazmk18.

There is no need to draw connections with our Native American Indians in the US sazmk18.  Our US government had already compensated and awarded Native American Indians financially or by property.  That is why we don't have Native American Indians arming themselves and making International Headlines. 

Unfortunately, it is now known that Malaysia has not properly compensated heirs of the Sultan of Sulu by trying to sweep a monthly rent of $141 under the carpet when they should be paying over $258,000,000 (million dollars) a month in rental fee.


You have no legitimate defense sazmk18, other than to agree to pay the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu the fair market value of such enormous property of anywhere over $258,000,000 (million dollars) a month in rental fee....NOT $141 a month.  It would be pathetic if you still cannot recognize what Malaysia is doing wrong and what you are trying to resist.

 

Raja1
Raja1

@JohnFordTesorero @Raja1 @colesa2011 @sazmk17  In 1942 Japan conquered Borneo the British reconquered under the UN laws governing such colonies they were ordered to decolonise all states as such the people of Sabah were given a right to choose and have since made no indication they want to be apart of Sulu or Philippines.


It is not up to her Britannic majesty and all matters were dealt with as I understand it the Philippines made a claim back in 1962 and agreed to the Manila accord when the vote went against them they pulled out you have no claim.


Also Sulu only "owned" Sabah because they said so they have no proof they received it from Brunei like they claim through a treaty of cession and there is a final contract between them and the British North Borneo company where Jamularal Kiram II completed the cession and it was stated as such.


Even in the original contract Sulu agreed to sell Sabah in return for money until the moon and sun no longer rise the sun is still rising so no go there for your argument. Note he also surrendered any rights of law over the territory to the BNBC its heirs and anyone they wish to pass onto as long as the money is still paid.


Her Britiannic majesty had rule over the whole of Sabah as shown above since the territory was 

A. conquered by his British Majestic forces and occupied as such


B. Under UN supervision territory was put under a plebiscite which discovered the people overwhelmingly supported entry to Malaysia and since then they have shown no desire to join Philippines or Sulu.


The agreement maybe "void" in your eyes but you are just greedy you want money? Work for it as for your claim it is not void besides the people have chosen they are electing officials and participating in Malaysian processes therefore it is Malaysian no manner of screaming or shouting will change that.


Your argument did not change my mind in the various places I have seen it nor will it change the people who matter the Sabahans themselves nothing has changed now let it go its been what 10-11 months since this argument died down.


You say you cannot give what you do not have? Well tell that to the thieving Kirams they did not have Sabah so they simply claimed it it is not theirs but Brunei's and the people of Sabah this is not the 15th century where Kings had all power Sabah was NEVER theirs they simply pirated for a living murdered innocent people then claimed which the British too hook line and sinker.


FYI Japan conquered Sabah Sulu was nowhere to be seen failed to reconquer and allowed British soldiers to die for it so it is British

JohnFordTesorero
JohnFordTesorero

@Raja1 @colesa2011 @sazmk17  Article IV of the Malaysia Agreement of 1963* reads as follows:

The Government of the United Kingdom will take such steps as may be appropriate and available to them to secure the enactment by the Parliament of the United Kingdom of an Act providing for the relinquishment, as from Malaysia Day, of Her Britannic Majesty’s sovereignty and jurisdiction in respect of North Borneo, Sarawak and Singapore so that the said sovereignty and jurisdiction shall on such relinquishment vest in accordance with this Agreement and the constitutional instruments annexed to this Agreement. Because it was stated that one part of Sabah** belonged to the Brunei Sultanate and the other part to the Sulu Sultanate, and while Brunei had ceded her part of Sabah’s sovereignty, Sulu (now part of the Philippines) only leased her part of Sabah, does Her Britannic Majesty had sovereignty over the whole or only one part of Sabah? It is obvious that the answer is only one part of Sabah, therefore Article IV is null and void thereby rendering the entire Malaysia Agreement of 1963 illegal and of no effect…! There is a legal maxim “nemodat quod non habet” which means “you cannot give what you do not have”.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1 @colesa2011  

Raja1, you're telling us now that I "did not" know what I am talking about?  Which means, "now" I do know what I'm talking about.

That's another problem you have raja1, in addition to having difficulties understanding English, your grammar is awful.  Don't you know when to use the right verb tense between "did not" and "do not"?

That's why your logic and explanations are all twisted, just like your understanding of proper English grammar raja1.   You don't know what you are talking about.

And you thought contracts that have a life span of eternity cannot be TERMINATED - you know NOTHING about the legalities of Contracts raja1.  Just as you don't know that all Contracts that formalizes the Purchase of any property REQUIRE a "Purchase Price"....that's nothing new raja1, that's standard practice.


colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1

Why are you bringing the Sultan of Brunei into this when in fact, the Sultan of Brunei never objected and never contested the "lease" payments that the Sultan of Sulu had been receiving for the past 135 years since 1878 raja1?

Also, don't you know that during the International Court of Justice case in 2002, your own Malaysian government confessed that they acquired Sabah through various transfers of rights originating from the Sulu Sultanate to the British Crown?  Malaysia never mentioned the Brunei Sultanate raja1...why are you trying to LIE TO US AGAIN?

This is why Malaysians like you cannot be trusted.  You LIE and you STEAL so naturally raja1.

And you still have not told us the "Purchase Price" to officially own the entire land of North Borneo raja1.  And if you give up trying to look for it, then accept the fact that the Contract Agreement was for the purpose of "Leasing" NOT "Ceding". 

The key word in both the agreements was "padjak", which has been translated by American, Dutch and Spanish linguists to mean "lease" or "arrendamiento".

Can you please educate yourself raja1 so we all can stop laughing at you.




Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

You did not know what you are talking about as soon as you opened your mouth and as soon as you typed these incoherent ramblings you polluted the internet with you have zero knowledge on history you have zero knowledge on modern and 19th century law and zero knowledge on the agreements made and the events after those agreements.

Save your smugness for yourself 

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1

So you need your imaginary friends to pump up your lack of IQ? Lol You are an actual crazy person 

It is irrelevant what he wrote Von Overbeck gained Sabah via Brunei why would he want a lease when he already owns the land regardless in 1903 you silly person the Suluks confirmed the cession in the confirmatory deed.

If your claim that the contract was void then Kiram has been claiming money illegally and falsely since the contract is null and void Von overbeck is therefore still in legal possession of Sabah as he aquired it through brunei in 1877 and Spain in 1885 and in 1903 Kirams completed the surrender stop lying to my face 

Seek medical attention for your  imaginary friend problem and do some proper research.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1

Raja1, do you even realize that a Contract Agreement is considered VOID and NULL if the Sultan of Sulu wrote "Pajak" in Arabic Script on the 1878 agreement to represent "Lease" while the British misinterpreted the word as "cede"? 

A binding Contract Agreement requires the genuine approval and agreement between both parties.  If the British company misinterpreted the Contract Agreement as to "Cede" and did not match with the Sultan of Sulu's interpretation as a "Lease", then the Contract Agreement is considered VOID and NULL.

 That's basic Contract Law Raja1.  Did you even know that or are you clueless about Contract Laws?

Also, don't try to LIE TO US again about the agreement between the Sultan of Sulu and the British company as being a TREATY.  You don't even know what a Treaty is raja1- it's an agreement made between two Sovereign nations.  

Is the Sultan of Sulu a Sovereign nation? No.

Is the British company a Sovereign nation? No.

This is just an agreement made between an Landlord and a foreign business company.  

You're getting so desperate, you don't even know what you're talking about anymore Raja1.


Everyone reading our discussion is laughing at you Raja1.

 



Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 

Genius I am not Malaysian well done for being a complete moron

Your words mean nothing to me a liars words mean nothing to me 

Yup I insist on Justice finally being done and the Kirams getting nothing they can however get money for their coffins I will agree to that.

Fair market value is $0 don't give me rubbish about ethical since you have no inkling of fair or ethical your trolling is beyond reason your argument baseless 

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

The "141$" is cession deal with it I don't care you are so dumb and so up your own ego you fail to make an argument actually stick people can see how stupid you are.

I have "blindly" done nothing but prove the land was ceded you failed to prove your only claim that somehow a law you invented makes it a lease and not cession as stated in the actual treaty 

Facts is something you did not present maybe in your own fantasy world that exists in the real world it does not .


I have wasted enough time on you be grateful for that now you can go back to your San miguel beer 

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

Ahhh hello you have not proven that the treaty gets over ruled by this law you just invented and people in the modern law as opposed to that fairy fantasy land you belong to don't care about land owners and royalties they oppose them don't give me your moral high ground rubbish you can lie to yourself you can pump yourself up but stop thinking that somehow other people support your madness no where have you proven the treaty gets over ruled by this law you invented and people will support what will benefit them or their beliefs unlike you I support whats right and believe in it so much I do not need other people to "pump" me up 

Allah is my guide and the whole world cannot change that munafiq Kiram should try it 

You failed so claiming I failed when you failed to back your own argument is viewable by everyone

I proven time and time again the land was ceded you invented a rule and pretend somehow this wins the "debate"

A thief is someone like the Suluks who stole from others so your words mean nothing to me and heres a news flash for you the Suluks don;t regard themselves as filipinos,have been demanding independence from your pitiful tin pot republic and those "armed" thugs you talk about are either dead or hungry to death they have been beaten.

You failed to demonstrate anything other than how stupid you are and how changing words does not change the actual facts that Sabah was ceded and lost to Sulu 

Suluks are theives and Allah has cured them stop with your self righteous BS it doesn't work on me as if I am suppose to cry about justice being done to the Suluk thieves.



colesa2011
colesa2011

Goes to show how ignorant you are of estimating the Fair Market Value of North Borneo Raja1.  Malaysia produces more than 5,000,000,000  (billion) dollars a year in oil alone Raja1 and you think an FMV of $0 is appropriate?


This is proof of your Criminal and Thieving mentality Raja1.  Instead of paying the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu the Fair Market Value for "leasing" North Borneo, you insist in paying them $0.


Thank you for allowing us all to paint an accurate picture of who you really are Raja1.   An immoral, unethical, deceptive, dishonorable, dishonest, thieving Malaysian.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1 @colesa2011  

I've already demonstrated my argument.  

However, you failed to supply us the "Purchase Price" for "owning" North Borneo found within the 1878 agreement made between the Sultan of Sulu and the British company in which you derive your monthly rental fee of $141 from Raja1.

You're a hard-core land thief Raja1.  That's why there are a number of armed Filipinos keeping your Malaysian security forces occupied in North Borneo today and will only get worse considering how blind you are in accepting the facts that you and Malaysia are only "leasing" the land property from the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu.


colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1 @colesa2011  

A large number of readers will stumble on our discussion and need to see that you have no morals and represent a nation that lacks the same.  

Meanwhile, you have failed to prove that Malaysia pays $141 per month to "own" North Borneo because you can't find anywhere in the 1878 agreement between the Sultan of Sulu and the British company, a clause that supports the "Principal Purchase Price" for owning North Borneo.

Therefore, Malaysia "LEASES" North Borneo for $141 just as this Times article clearly confirms and clarifies for the entire World to read, learn, and educate themselves with.

I'm sorry Raja1, you LOSE.


Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

fair market value is $0 why don't you learn to make a decent argument rather than using morality falsely a thief and liar will always be a liar and all a thief and liar deserves is a bullet not money when someone threatens you you fight back.

The Suluks were thieves and liars who commited rape and murder so don't you dare try to use moral high ground learn history and modern laws rather than your rehashed rubbish

Kirams will get nothing and like it or die 

Thanks for wasting my time troll I thought I would get a decent debate instead I got trollop 

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

hardcore thieves? Its entertaining that you have no argument and you plan to steal from Sabah which is what your intentions but accuse the truth of being a theft? so funny why not save your moral high ground malarkey to your filipino masters they are the only ones who believe you. Oh wait outside the internet even they don't care your internet hard man talk is not going to change anything

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

There we go again don't use your morality crap here on me it does not fly with me and 99% of the world no one gives a rats about a pirate descendant of a pirate who made his living by robbing,raping,killing,torturing and terrorising people so hey karma smacked him in the face.

Malaysia does not have to pay anything to "hold on" to anything the people of Sabah ousted the robbers and pirates this money was charity nothing else if not then tell me which court recognises Sulus claim over Sabah? Which coiuntry in the world pressured Malaysia to negotiate over Sabah? What no one then who is Kiram and you to whine about "hanging on" but hey Malaysia will cease paying Sulu soon so you can see how Malaysia hangs on to Sabah and how your pirate lord dies a broken scum.

Malaysia will do the right thing by stop paying anything to Sulu and kill off an agreement that died in 1942 you do the right thing and go and get yourself an education and wake up stay away from that Shabu.

258 million is an over estimation $0 is more fair yup so lets Malaysia do the right thing and finish the cession 

"everyone" whose "everyone" you mean your filipino masters? They are not "everyone" but what people can see is you are a liar and a habitual liar I hope you are not a pretend Muslim because that's very bad 

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1@colesa2011 

It's very entertaining to see how hard-core thieves like yourself try to talk your way out of what you are doing wrong.

You only have two options Raja1, pay the FAIR MARKET VALUE of the entire land mass of North Borneo which amounts to over $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month or STOP paying the pathetic $141 monthly rental fee so that you can Breach the Contract and end the agreement.

Learn to do the Right thing...not the Wrong thing Raja1.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1@colesa2011 

Malaysia has a moral duty not to rip people off and rob individuals of other nations.

You and Malaysia are clearly paying $141 dollars a month to hang onto an agreement that lets you "lease" North Borneo from the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu.  And yet you don't view that paying the FAIR MARKET VALUE of today's rate for North Borneo which amounts to over $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month is appropriate in order to avoid the consequences, repercussions, and embarrassment your country is receiving?

You're wrong Raja1...do what is right.  Pay the Proper Rental Fee of over $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month to lease the entire land mass of North Borneo...not a pathetic $141 dollars a month.  

Everyone here can see right through your shallow thoughts Raja1.

 

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

If you cannot prove to me that "final purchase" is law and invlaidates and over rules treaties and what they say you argument is invalid and therefore you can stop whining about it if not that is not on me to continue to waste my time on someone who can;t be bothered to do some research.

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

You should stop opening your mouth you have removed all doubt of your stupidity.

Media publications are known to lie this will not suffice for an idiot like yourself as they support your argument but basically a one day old has more intelligence than you 

All you had to do was prove that in international law in the 19th ccentury there is a rule that acts must finaal purchaaseprice and the what ever the treaty says does  not matter you cannot do that so I am not obliged to respond to a lie you invented 

Tthe treaty says until the end of time and in 1903 signed by the Sultan of Sulu stating in return for extra money the cession is complette there forre ceded clearly the land 

case closed stop lying munafiq 

Time magazine was quoting the sultan you twit and Malaysia will stop paying soon so you can scratch that out of your argument soon the 1700 $ is cession not rent regardless of what he claims and the land is profitable because people worked for it just because you and him want to be lazy does not mean people should pay you welfare go and work for money you lazy slime

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 It is common sense to read the contract and come up with some thing better a law that you invented does not count therfore I am not inclined to respond to something you pulled out of your back side munafiq

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1@colesa2011

Why should Malaysia pay a monthly fee if they don't have to Raja1?  One kind of nonsense is that?

If I bought a property in full payment cash, why would I want to continue to pay the previous owners if I don't have to Raja1?  You're filled with lies and deception.  You can fool children Raja1, but you cannot LIE to us especially for many of us who have bought an purchased many PROPERTIES through mortgage loans and even CASH.

STOP trying to LIE TO US Raja1.  You can't treat us like the way you lie to your children.

 All you have to do is TELL US the "PURCHASE PRICE" or the remaining "PRINCIPAL BALANCE" for owning North Borneo.  If not, then Malaysia is CLEARLY "LEASING" North Borneo Raja1 just as this Article has clearly confirmed:


"still receives roughly $1,700 a year in rent from Kuala Lumpur, but views the sum as ridiculous given how profitable the land is and the status afforded to other sultans in Malaysia." - Times Magazine


Stop arguing with Times Magazine, they are much smarter than you are Raja1.

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1

Malaysia is under no legal recourse to pay anything so your internet hard talk won;t get them anything the Kirams by breaching their own fake treaty will lose the 5300

I have asked you several times to show me where in 19th century international law that is binding for everyone that there has to be a "final purchase" price I have proven to you it was a cession as confirmed in 1903 and I have given you example that in business (as this was a business deal) royalties are the final purchase and this was a exceeede royalty I ahve also given you fruits of knowledge which you could have checked for yourzelf that Brunei ceded Sabah (all of it) was more recognised as the master of Sabah and how he does not complain about "final purchase" etc

I feel Imam Ali (RA) said was true "A wise man first thinks and then speaks and a fool speaks first and then thinks"

You basically wasted my time have no argument and use the same defence all the time even though it is invalid 

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1@colesa2011

It's common sense to know what the "Purchase Price" for something you want to own Raja1.

You must not live in the real world Raja1.  Why would anyone want to "own" something they don't know the total cost for?


Please tell us the "Purchase Price" for owning North Borneo Raj1.  If not, please tell us how much Malaysia has already paid and what the remaining "Principal Balance" is for owning North Borneo.


If you can't tell us the "Purchase Price" or can't tell us the remaining "Principal Balance" for owning North Borneo, then you don't know much about buying home properties Raja1.


Why are you defending an issue in which you have no experience in buying properties Raja1?

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1@colesa2011 

Raja1...again, we don't care about anything but the "Purchase Price" indicated in the 1878 agreement between the Sultan of Sulu and the British North Borneo company in which this whole thing started from.  Please tell us what the "Purchase Price" is for owning North Borneo.

And if you cannot find the "Purchase Price" then you lose....Malaysia is "leasing" North Borneo period at a unfair rental fee of just $141 dollars a month when it SHOULD BE  $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month based on todays FAIR MARKET VALUE.

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

It is absurd that you have no proof of "final purchase" over ruling contracts and what they actually say you cannot deny the cession as in 1903 but somehow Malaysia should pay them a monthly fee even though they don't have to

You support terrorism even though these terrorists killed innocent people and have your brain stuck in ancient times yet make no demand for your government to pay Sulu millions of dollars in compensation and monthly fees in return for Sulu archipelago?

The hypocrisy just stinks really bad

Malaysia will stop paying the Kirams and stop trying to negotiate with them the people power movement has spoken Kirams get nothing now all they have are fake titles and empty thrones bad luck for the greedy

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

"we" "you" "us" is invalid we are two people on the internet so I am not even certain why you are using third person.

You are whining about "final purchase" but cannot show me where there is an international law in the 19th century stating that no matter what is written in the contract there has to be a final purchase since you cannot your claim is invalid.

Because the treaty said it was ceded it was sold just like Brunei who sold his lands for 12000 M$ which you ironically ignore because you like to use selective arguments deliberatelyy lying does not strengthen your argument since you can't even be bothered to do any research.

DOn't waste my time whining about "final purchase" when it was a flawed argument to start off with everything is in the treaty if the Kirams wanted a life time payment then that is there "final purchase" that is what they wanted they got it so keep your pitiful argument.

"Fabricate" well yes someone who can;t be bothered to do any proper research from various sources will use that argument knowing that it is the truth no "fabrication" occurred but you did pull this "final puirchase" rubbish out of your back side so stop whining about it to me

What army does Sulu have apart from these 200 hired guns? What financial power does he have? Oh he has nothing therefore malaysia won't and does not need to pay him a penny now deal with it

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

The treaty says cede the bone of contention is claimed that the Suluk version only states lease however Von Overbeck was made Datu Bendehara and had the legal authority over Sabah with the British consul general in Brunei as the sole arbitrator.

The treaty in British and the 1903 Confirmatory deed (which the Suluk side never talk about) confirms that the amount is for life and the cession is complete closed case you cannot show me where there is an international law in 19th century where a final purchase nullifies anything actually written on the treaty. The treaty says for life end of story you cannot find anywhere where there is a rule where there has to be a final purchase therefoere your point is invalid.

In business there is the "roaylties" rule where businessmen can buy something for nothing or a small amount of money and pay royalty for the life of the person or his heirs and the royalty is usually 1% or less of the net profits this is in business.

In the case of the Kirams they were losing money after the British put a stop to their raids on Sabah therefore they cashed out therefore this money was more like "royalty" payments the treaty is clear there is no such thing as "final purchase" so this argument is invalid.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1

Raja1, we really don't care about who ceded what, and who ceded.

We want you to start from the very beginning and tell us what the "Purchase Price" or "Total Sale Price" for buying to own North Borneo is as stated anywhere from the 1878 agreement between the Sultan of Sulu and the British company.

Because if you CANNOT even find the "Purchase Price" then North Borneo was never even sold to the British, or sold to the Malaysians, or sold to Martians, or sold to microscopic bacteria, or just legitimately ceded to any entity.

Don't waste your time fabricating stories when all that really matters is if the 1878 agreement between the Sultan of Sulu and the British company disclosed the "Purchase Price" or "Total Sale Price" to support your defense that North Borneo had been "ceded" away from the Sultan of Sulu and their heirs.

Because if North Borneo was ceded to Malaysia, then you DON'T have to pay a single penny.  Unfortunately, you appear to still be upholding the agreement contract for paying $141 per month indicating that you are simply "leasing" the property or "have never paid off some purchase price".

So just stop making excuses and pay $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month to lease the entire territorial land of North Borneo under fair market value or stop paying the pathetic $141 dollar monthly fee to breach the contract agreement.

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1  

Everything you buy to "own" has a "purchase price" raja1.  Since you couldn't find anywhere in the 1878 agreement the purchase price for owning North Borneo, then such agreement was not meant for the purpose of owning North Borneo, it was for the purpose of "leasing" North Borneo.

Do you live in a property in which you pay mortgage on?  If so, guess what...that's not your property either, it belongs to the bank until you pay off the "principal purchase price" of the entire home.  Did you know that Raja1?



Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

There is no such thing as "final purchase" no does it say anywhere in the treaty it was a cession clear and plain for life just like Brunei got the difference is Brunei realised the 1942 occupation of Sabah voided that agreement and so is being responsible.

Not one penny more will be given to these terrorists they will only get bullets your internet tough talk won't change that at all

Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 

You basically invented a rule and sticking to it the Kirams sold it as it says on the treaty ceded the same as what was written on Bruneis treaty in 1877 he got 12000 M$ a year in return for the cession of the WHOLE of Sabah (putting a rest to Sulus claim to Sabah altogether).

You prove where you got this rule and how it nulls any treaty where the treaty says ceded. The kirams sold off Sabah in 1878 and 1903 where they confirmed the cession changing the word from cede to lease does not change the fact that he 

1. Holds no rights over Sabah and the power was given to the British

2.Lost his ability to raid Sabah 

3.Claimed Sabah Via Brunei who considered it their territory and who Ceded it in return for 12000 M$ a year and this was all of Sabah.

4.Sabah ousted the Suluks who had no forts or settlements in Sabah 

5. Japan conquered Sabah and dissolved the pervious status Quo allowing UK to annex Sabah

6. Sabah formed Malaysia and the people with many years of history there 

There was no "lease" and the treaty is forever in perpeuity until the suna nd moon no longer rises. 

Malaysia does not have to pay anything to these sultans it only did this out of charity Malaysia will stop paying the money and there would be "breach" as the treaty is null and void. 

If you want to help the Kirams ask your FIlipino government to start paying them 100 Million $ a month for the years of theft and murder you served on their lands in Sulu archipelago I know they will tell you go and stuff yourself as times have changed lol

colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1

Kiram never sold North Borneo raja1 nor could you prove that because you cannot provide us all the Total Sale Price for such transaction.

So whatever stories you are fabricating and trying to confuse us will not work and does not dismiss the fact that Malaysia is paying the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu $141 per month as part of the lease agreement that originated since 1878 between the Sultan of Sulu and a British company.


The bottom line is that Malaysia should not be paying $141 per month and that they should be paying well over $258,000,000 (million dollars) per month to lease such an enormous land mass the size of Massachusetts that is rich in oil and gold.

There are no excuses Raja1, you have to pay today's fair market value or you could stop paying $141 per month altogether to breach the 1878 contract agreement that allows you to "lease" North Borneo from the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu.


 



colesa2011
colesa2011

@Raja1 @colesa2011  

If you say it is no one's responsibility to pay someone for a time long gone, then why are you and Malaysia still paying the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu $141 per month for leasing North Borneo based on an agreement since 1878 raja1?

So you can continue to lease North Borneo of course.  Because if you stop making the $141 per month payment, then you breach the contract in which the payment of $141 per month is based on (5000 malaysian dollars annually) .


So you see Raja1, you cannot LIE to us.  How many times do we have to tell you that?


Your only duty is to prove that the Sultan of Sulu agreed to "cede" his property of North Borneo to the British North Borneo company by telling us the entire "Purchase Price" for owning the territorial property.


And since you cannot even do that because it never mentions that in the 1878 agreement, then it remains to be a fact that Malaysia "LEASES" North Borneo for $141 per month as supported by this article in the TIME International Magazine.  

You LOSE Raja1.  I'm terribly sorry...you really should consider paying the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu the FAIR MARKET VALUE of North Borneo based on TODAY 2013...not 1878 or 1903.  

 Stop robbing and stealing from people....that is NOT good raj1.


Raja1
Raja1

@colesa2011 @Raja1 First of all it is no ones "responsibility" to pay someone for a time long gone by for property that does not belong to him that has been developed by someone else. Sabah was nothing more than a treasure trove the Suluks only claim to Sabah came from murder and plunder on the very last he sold it off to secure a long term pension as he lost his power.

I have been caught in a "lie" yet your explanation for it is lame so magically Malaysia "increased" the fee for no reason? The "annual" cession fee is covered by the confirmatory deed of cession of 1903 your mind seems to be stuck somewhere else rather than checking the facts you went ahead and made a false accusation.

"http://www.gov.ph/1903/04/22/philippine-claim-to-north-borneo-vol-i-confirmatory-deed-of-1903/

This is the confirmatory deed of 1903 which increased the amount to 5300 and confirmed the cession do you intend to tell me you a filipino Christian whose people participated in the murder and theft of Mindanao with NO compensation what so ever to the heirs of the Sultans of Mindanao and their people somehow want to lecture me on "justice" for an old pirate? 

The fact of the matter is Sulu deserves neither $141 or 258 000 000 and per month no way the people of Sabah worked hard for that money why should they pay your idiot princes who lost their power a long time ago.

Hey genius in 1942 Japan conquered Sabah where was the "owner" NO WHERE because he sold it off and sold out thats no one fault but his ancestors Sulu deserve $0 so your internet tough talk won;t fool the people of Sabah into paying these terrorists off they only thing he will get is 6 ft of soil or maybe a little more or less depending on his height maybe if the Sabahans are feeling generous they may give him a couple of pesos to cover his funeral

Once again times have changed Sulu deserves nothing and thanks to their arrogance will now get nothing now go cry somewhere else cyber warrior your internet talk won;t sway the billions of intelligent people in the world. If you feel like needing to secure justice start paying Sulu "heirs" millions of $ per month for your country's theft of Sulu archipelago