It’s Not What the Pope Said About Gays, It’s How He Said It

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STEFANO RELLANDINI / AFP / Getty Images

Pope Francis addresses the young people at Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janeiro during World Youth Day on July 25, 2013

At first glance, Pope Francis’ statement on homosexuality, delivered today in an impromptu press conference aboard the papal plane, seemed to indicate a remarkable break with church tradition. “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis told journalists, as he flew from Rio de Janeiro to Rome. “The tendency [to homosexuality] is not the problem … They’re our brothers.”

The Pope’s words were warmly received by gay activists in Italy and elsewhere. “From now on, when I hear a bishop or a priest say something against me, I’m going to say, ‘Who are you to judge,’” says Franco Grillini, president of Gaynet Italia, the association of gay journalists in Italy.

(MORE: Pope Francis Says He Does Not Judge Gay Priests)

But like many of Francis’ more newsmaking statements, the real difference is less about the contents of his words than in the direct, earthy style in which he delivers them and the church teachings he chooses to emphasize. “It’s the way he’s expressing himself, with great candor, that is surprising to people,” says John Wauck, a professor of communications at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross. “Actually, the substance of it is nothing exceptional.”

Francis’ comment in May that some atheists might make it into heaven drew headlines. The Vatican’s subsequent explanation that his words were in line with a long tradition of church teachings did not. Similarly, Francis’ statement on the plane was not far from the passage on homosexuality in the catechism of the Catholic Church, published under Pope John Paul II in 1992. That text calls on Catholics to accept homosexuals “with respect, compassion and sensitivity,” avoiding “every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard.”

Where he differed is in what he left out: the accompanying message in the catechism that while a gay person is to be accepted, acting out on homosexual acts is to be deplored: “Under no circumstances can they be approved … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” Francis, who cited the catechism in his answers to reporters, said nothing to contradict this. Asked for his position on gay marriage, he answered: “You know perfectly the position of the church.”

But while Francis has put little doctrinal space between himself and his predecessors, comments like the one on the plane reflect a clear choice in the early months of his papacy to de-emphasize the issues of sexual morality that have made the church a lightning rod in the culture wars. Even as France was consumed last spring in debate over the legalization of gay marriage, a battle that pitted the French church against the government, Francis made no mention of the issue.

In Brazil, he told the reporters on the plane, he purposefully avoided talking about abortion or gay marriage, in order to stay focused on the positive. “His message is not ‘Don’t do that, don’t do this,’” says Wauck. “The moral strictures are present, but they’re implicit. The attention of the Pope is on a much larger vision of the church and what Christianity has to offer to the world.”

MORE: A Pope for the Poor

340 comments
wuagent
wuagent

so the pope is an apostate...who knew?

paulgeorges
paulgeorges

Abraham is shared by Jewish,Christian,and Islam . Something or someone to share become hate,muder in the name not of religion but selfishness ,and not altruism at all.   History  of the world was to take always more and to take all from his neighbours without mercy if the are weak  . Greedness and selfishness lead us to  only one god : money. Do we have to live for money as a only goal and let others to suffer and proclam after we trust God ? No matter we are Christian,Jew,muslim or someone else if we are wealthy and we let  others to suffer we are without any heart at all.And more important without any faith apart in a false god:money.  

RobinBallard
RobinBallard

Exactly the way I've felt my entire life (though I'm not Catholic) - God created all of us.  Over the years I'd developed a strong disdain for Roman Catholicism - so judgmental - always forgetting that God created all of us!  We are supposed to love our neighbors...all of them.  It is NOT OUR JOB TO JUDGE.  THAT IS GOD'S JOB.  And ... for those of you citing Bible scriptures...I want to remind you - it was written long after Jesus died - especially the new testament.  Our job is to love one another - and leave the judging to God.  If we don't like something - we have the 'free will' not to participate.


J___T
J___T

Of all the myriad sins condemned dozens of times in the Bible, and for which the Catholic church preaches confession and forgiveness, for some reason the petty piety in everyone comes out to denounce gays over and over again in the harshest, most unforgiving, and often vulgar terms.  That is simply not what the Bible tells its followers to do, nor is it what John Paul II tells Catholics to do, nor is it what this Pope tells Catholics to do.  Homophobic Catholics aren't getting their information on homosexuality from the Pope, nor from Jesus Christ (who never mentions it at all, not once).  They're getting it from the same bigoted and hateful place that people raised in fear always seem to harbor.  It's no surprise, Jesus Christ Himself couldn't convince the powers that be of His day, so how would you expect a religious person raised with two millennia's tradition of fear and loathing to understand The Word any better.

alwaysrefer
alwaysrefer

 The Bible clearly says against and given the incidents of SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY as a sin. Since Bible (Word of God) already judged it as sin, POPE HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO CLARIFY THAT IT IS NOT A SIN. So he said he is nobody to judge anybody what is clear in bible.

POPE finding himself. Leave Mr. Pope alone. who we are to judge POPEs. But one day his so called ignorance willbe brought before the mighty thrown on God. 

joestuffsda
joestuffsda

Matthew 7:3

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Topsoil
Topsoil

Hey Francis,

You either believe in the Bible or you don't. God, in Leviticus 20:13, told the world what he thought about the subject.

silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

Hi,

In Genesis 1:31 it says, "Then God saw everything that He made & indeed it was very good..............."

In Matthew 19:12 Jesus says, "For their are eunuchs who were BORN from their mother's womb..............."

There is a THIRD SEX.



Rock Beloved
Rock Beloved

Gay is against nature of human. (why there is female) . creation of life most have both male & female even in electricity hihihi .THEY MUST BE KICKED OUT OF SOCIETY

DaveMorgan
DaveMorgan

In 50 years we won't be having these conversations.  I just tune'em out, embrace my fellow humans regardless of who they love and continue my calling.  Debating the musings of a last-century time-wasting institution is not my idea of progress or enlightenment.  The news media needs to focus on what will save the planet rather than on cheap flashes in the pan to attract eyeballs.

Michael Velociraptor
Michael Velociraptor

Maybe that's what he thinks he's doing, maybe it isn't. But in reality, he isn't doing anything to take down barriers. All he said is that Catholics should accept them as human beings, not that they should accept homosexuality as an act. So in other words, they accept that people are homosexual, and have homosexual tendencies and urges, but they do not accept the act in itself. So it's okay to have gay feelings, but not okay to act on them. Hardly equality if you ask me.

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

The killing of homosexuals is condoned and encouraged in the wonderful laws of Leviticus. Leviticus 20:13clearly states "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."  Well there you have it, Homosexuality is wrong, and they must pay the ultimate price... IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!

Who else shouldn't people do?

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)  Have you ever done that?

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).  I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death.  (Leviticus 20:14)

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16).  I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants.  Are they crazy?

If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death.  (Leviticus 20:27)

If a priest's daughter is a wh ore, she is to be burnt at the stake.  (Leviticus 21:9)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community.  (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Thetruthteller
Thetruthteller

Roman chronicler Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus, better known as Pliny the Younger, in his capacity as imperial magistrate once wrote to the Emperor Trajan (98 – 117 C.E.) as follows:

“...For the moment this is the line I have taken with all persons brought before me on the charge of being Christians. I have asked them in person if they are Christians, and if they admit it, I repeat the question a second and third time, with a warning of the punishment awaiting them. If they persist, I order them to be led away for execution; for, whatever the nature of their admission, I am convinced that their stubbornness and unshakeable obstinacy ought not to go unpunished. There have been others similarly fanatical who are Roman citizens. I have entered them on the list of persons to be sent to Rome for trial.

Now that I have begun to deal with this problem, as so often happens, the charges are becoming more widespread and increasing in variety. An anonymous pamphlet has been circulated which contains the names of a number of accused persons. Amongst these I considered that I should dismiss any who denied that they were or ever had been Christians when they had repeated after me a formula of invocation to the gods and had made offerings of wine and incense to your statue (which I had ordered to be brought into court for this purpose along with the images of the gods), and furthermore had reviled the name of Christ: none of which things, I understand, any genuine Christian can be induced to do...”

In the early years of the Christian faith, the litmus test of belief for the followers of The Way was a veritable life-or-death proposition: pagan idolatry or (ofttimes grisly) annihilation.

In the early 21st century, the new test of faith appears to be increasingly coalescing around the generalized acceptance of homosexual idiosyncracies, with secular society being joined by Christ-professing churches in requiring obesiance to that burgeoning trend. The extent of this social transformation remains to be seen, but we shall not have long to wait. A fiery test draws near for the modern followers of the Master. Homosexuality is the new paganism.

Nicky Andrew Harding
Nicky Andrew Harding

great perhaps u pair can come out of the closet now tell your wifes to put the strap ons away enjoy your liberation wont you.

DUIAttorneysLA
DUIAttorneysLA

The title reminds me of something I say to my wife when she's grumpy: Is it something I said? Or is it something I didn't say? Or is it the way I did not say it?

Androushka
Androushka

@newsfromitaly Do we really believe the Church will change its policies on women and gay people?Tolerance & equality are 2 different things.

SKBN113
SKBN113

Hebrews 8 is a "tell all" chapter of the New Covenant.

We don't need this man telling us what's what.

He obviously and painfully doesn't even know his own Manual of Operating Procedures!

He says homosexuals need to be included in society.

THEY ARE!

And the Word of God has already pronounced God's view of the BEHAVIOR. It's BAD!

So let's throw out the Bible 'cuz Francis has got a new take on things?

NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

Jesus or Francis? I choose Jesus.

And Jesus would look at every single sinner (regardless) and tell them what He told that woman, "Go and sin no more."

(It's already established that homosexual acts are a sin, so sorry Francis, buddy....you're just plain looking at things wrong.)

Plus he speaks with forked tongue. Look at this:

"Pope Francis is a conservative who is anti-gay marriage and anti-gay adoption. He has described same-sex marriage as the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan.” He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children." He says rightly.  However, we should just emphasize God's love for each individual He created.

Cut/paste everywhere if you agree with this post. Thank you.

silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

@SukeMadiq  

Yo Bro,

Jesus of Nazareth summed up all the TORAH LAWS with 2:

"You shall love God with your whole heart & mind & do the same to your neighbor"!

They wanted to know who was their neighbor, so Jesus told them by giving them a Parable: Luke 10:25-37 

In John 8:1-12 we see Jesus REVERSE the DEATH SENTENCE for adultery.

In Malachi we read that God hates DIVORCE, yet Evangelical "Christians" have no problem accommodating fellow "Christians", who have been DIVORCED, not ONCE, TWICE, but sometimes TRICE.

Moses did his THEOLOGY in Egypt! He learned CHURCH PLANTING from his PAGAN father-in-law, who worshiped VOLCANOES.

Now go back & re-read TORAH.

YHWH & ALLAH were figments of Moses & Mohammed's imagination. OK?

Leave these NEANDERTHAL CULTS & move forward into the 21st century.

We can learn more from Star Trex , than we can from those who lived thousands of years ago.

Yes, by all means learn from their hygiene laws & how the land should be treated, not with the nitrate poisons, weed killers etc,.  we keep putting into the ground, getting bigger yields, but less nutrients from our crops.   

   

 

sjsamuel71
sjsamuel71

@SukeMadiq You hardly need to be told that the Leviticus is slightly older than today's edition of the New York Times. Yes, what you've unearthed is correct, but please try and place it in its proper historical context. And if anyone tells you that the Bible is a holy book whose contents need to be adhered to verbatim, please tell them that they are mistaken. Please tell them that like all holy books, the Bible too has its share of absurdities and laws and instructions that might not be in tune with today's cultural ethos; please also tell them that there would be passages, especially from the Old Testament, that are in conflict with the message of Christianity. And last, no matter who tries to argue with you about the message of Christianity point to them Mark 12: 30 and 31. Forget all that you hear -- form scholars, priests, anyone -- that's the message of Christ. And to clarify it in more secular language, Christ said: (1) No matter who/what you believe in, believe him/her/it completely and (2) love yourself and the other fellow no matter what he/she believes in. And that includes the faithful, the faithless, the gays, the straight ones, everyone. Simple, is it not? But by God, difficult to practise.

AlessandraBarros
AlessandraBarros

@SukeMadiq  

people with a homosexual problem (LGBT) are the greatest group to perpetrate violence against homosexuals, not conservatives. And that's when LGBTs aren't harassing and abusing heterosexuals... 

the stereotype of homosexual as victim is  a complete hoax...


silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

@Thetruthteller 

If you are honest & accept what Genesis 1:31 says, then you MUST look at ALL aspects of nature. When you see the many different means the plant & animal world use in their "sexuality", its mind boggling.

Flatworms' fencing penises
Flatworms are hermaphrodites, meaning they have both male and female sex organs, which triggers some seriously odd reproductive behavior. When trying to impregnate another worm, for example, a flatworm tries to pierce the skin of the other using its penis. Experts term this heated competition "penis fencing": The first to successfully impregnate the other while fending off advances becomes the de facto male, who wins because he won't have to expend the energy required to carry eggs. 

God has a sense of humor!

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

@Nicky Andrew Harding

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.  (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


(In John Belushi voice)  How MUch for the little Girl!

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

@Nicky Andrew Harding

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)


Quiet useless woman!


By the way I am not gay, but you should be ashamed of preaching hate while hiding behind a little girl!

newsfromitaly
newsfromitaly

@Androushka Remember the teachings of the RC church are based on texts created when the world was a very different place.

silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

@SKBN113  

"I CHOOSE JESUS"

NO YOU DON'T!

RE-READ THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT & APPLY IT.

RE-READ ACTS CH 1 & 2 & APPLY IT.

THE 3 STOOGES, BUSH- CLINTON - OBAMA PRETEND TO BE CHRISTIANS.

AMERICA IS A PRETEND COUNTRY!

THE PURITANS MASSACRED THE AMERICAN INDIAN & THEN BROKE ALL THE TREATIES THEY MADE WITH THOSE WHO WERE LEFT.

THEY USED THE OLD TESTAMENT TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS.

THEY NEVER QUOTED JESUS OF NAZARETH, WHILE DEALING WITH THE INDIANS.

AQMERICANS ARE IGNORANT OF THEIR HISTORY.

ASK AN INDIAN, "DO YOU CELEBRATE THANKSGIVING"?

HE WILL LAUGH IN YOUR FACE & ASK "DO JEWS CELEBRATE HITLER'S BIRTHDAY"?

 

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

@SKBN113

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

@SKBN113

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

@SKBN113 

The bible also says women are to be silent in church.   It is also ok to beat your wife and sell your daughters into slavery.  

The bible says you a a worthless woman, your opinion does not matter!

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

@AlessandraBarros @SukeMadiq 

Cause and effect...

Gays hang around other gays more often, more so when alchohol is involved.


Women are also much much more likely to get beat up by their husbands than anyone else...

silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

@SukeMadiq  

Yo Bro,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jews & Christians have outlawed SLAVERY!

ISLAM HASN'T!

IT CAN'T, BECAUSE MOHAMMED SLAVES - WHITE & BLACK & IT WAS SANCTIONED BY HIS IMAGINARY FRIEND, ALLAH.

HAVE A LOOK AT SUDAN.

silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

@SukeMadiq 

YO Bro,

You want HATE:

THE PERFECT MUSLIM

And surely thou hast sublime morals

(Surat Al-Qalam 68:4).

Muslim scholars collectively agree, a child becomes an adult, available for sexual intercourse as soon as she reaches the age of nine. Likewise, the Shari’a allows any of the faithful to marry a six-year-old child.

According to the fatwa, the prophet Muhammad could not have sex with his fiancée, Aisha when she was six due to her small size & age. However, the fatwa said that at age six, he would put his penis between her thighs and massage it gently because he did not want to harm her.

Imagine a man of 51 removing the clothes of a 6-year-old girl and slipping his erect penis between her thighs, rubbing her until he ejaculated and his semen ran down her thighs. To this day, this is considered a benevolent act on the part of the adult male “not wanting to harm her.” What harm could be inflicted upon a young girl mentally and emotionally if not a grown man showing her his penis and stripping her of her clothes and rubbing his male organ between her legs?

silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

@SukeMadiq@AlessandraBarros 

YO BRO,

GOOGLE:

The Techniques of Communism:
INVADING EDUCATION
CHAPTER X: 208-248 (1954)

by Louis F. Budenz 

REAGAN ALLOWED COMMUNISM TO BE TAUGHT IN AMERICAN SCHOOLS.

AMERICA IS NOW, THE UNITED COMMUNIST STATES OF AMERICA & THE STOOGE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AT THE MOMENT, IS A DYED IN THE WOOL COMMUNIST.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMMUNISM & NAZISM?

COMMUNISM IS INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISM, WHILE NAZISM IS NATIONAL SOCIALISM.

AMERICA HAS BEEN SCREWED!  

silverstein.larry03
silverstein.larry03

@SukeMadiq@AlessandraBarros 

YO BRO,

 GOOGLE:

Homosexual Serial Killers
Statistical analysis of the proportion of homosexuality among serial killers,
with a listing of prominent GLBT/homosexual serial killers

 Although incidents of serial killing are widely reported in the media because of the heinous and unusual nature of these crimes, there are actually very few serial killers relative to the general population. Research into this phenomenon is ongoing, and a small industry has sprung up around the practice of "profiling" serial killers in order to assist in their apprehension. But, law enforcement officials agree that each serial killer is unique. Society does not currently have sufficient knowledge to predict serial killing before it occurs and thus prevent it from happening. 

 Homosexual serial killers have most frequently chosen young boys or gay men as their victims, although some have victimized females as well. Most of the killers have raped their victims either before or after killing them, although in some cases they have killed after consensual homosexual sex. There have been heterosexual serial killers who have targeted gay victims (e.g., Colin Ireland), but this is very rare.

AlessandraBarros
AlessandraBarros

@SukeMadiq @AlessandraBarros  

Homosexuals abuse and harass heterosexuals all the time. You never heard of LGBT people committing murder because you have your fingers stuck in your ears...

 

SukeMadiq
SukeMadiq

@AlessandraBarros @SukeMadiq 

Oh and how often do gays abuse straights?   I have heard of gay people being killed for it, but never heard of gay people killing straights just for the fun of it.