Forget Trade Talks, Biden Is in East Asia to Stop a Potential War

As Beijing flexes its muscles and pushes territorial claims, the U.S. Vice President needs to reassure allies and make full use of his rapport with Chinese President Xi Jinping

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Yoshikazu Tsuno / AFP / Getty Images

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden is greeted by Japanese officials upon his arrival at the Tokyo International Airport on Dec. 1, 2013

U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden Jr.’s trip to Asia was supposed to be about mutually beneficial trade partnerships, the tastiness of U.S. agricultural exports and a dose of good ol’ American love for a region that has been feeling a little neglected lately. Instead, his Asia excursion, which includes stops in Japan, China and South Korea, has been dominated by a regional security crisis that some fear could spark armed conflict involving the world’s three biggest economies.

In Tokyo on Dec. 3, Biden renewed American ties with the staunchest U.S. ally in Asia, amid concerns over Beijing’s creation last month of an air-defense identification zone that includes skies over disputed territory between Japan and China. The U.S. Vice President has joined Japan in rejecting the lines China has drawn in the sky, with Biden characterizing himself as “deeply concerned,” in an interview with the Asahi Shimbun, a Japanese daily. Biden and Japan’s conservative Prime Minister Shinzo Abe are scheduled to have a working dinner on Tuesday night. In the lead-up to Biden’s trip, U.S. officials reiterated Washington’s commitment to a longtime security alliance with Tokyo that calls for American troops to defend Japan in case of attack.

This wasn’t just idle talk. On Nov. 23, China announced the creation of an East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) that overlaps with previous aerial boundaries drawn by Japan and South Korea. The points of overlap are precisely where territorial disputes exist between China and its maritime neighbors, most contentiously over a scattering of islands in the East China Sea called the Senkaku in Japanese and Diaoyu in Chinese. (Taiwan is the third claimant to the bits of rock.)

(MORE: Why a Pacific War Is Possible: The Dangerous Hatred Between China and Japan)

These uninhabited islets are administered by Japan but China makes historic claims to them, arguing that they were part of Japan’s imperial landgrab across Chinese territory. Japan argues they were terra nullius and therefore open to an extension of national sovereignty in the late 19th century. More recently, China also views the U.S. as complicit in the mess because the Americans reverted the specks of land to the Japanese in the early 1970s when the final stages of the U.S. occupation ended.

Tensions over the islets have intensified since the Japanese government nationalized three of them last year. Tokyo says it did so in order to keep an ultra-hawkish Japanese politician from buying them and turning them into a political trophy. But the Chinese government took the purchase as nationalist drumbeating by a former imperial power that Beijing says has not adequately apologized for its brutal occupation during World War II. Washington waded into the controversy by affirming that its security alliance with Japan included the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands, even if the U.S. does not take an official position on who should own the disputed turf.

Now Beijing’s ADIZ is heightening tensions even further in East Asia. Any country can fashion its own ADIZ, a designation that carries no international legal weight and is different from national airspace. But China’s version uniquely carries an oblique threat of military action toward a foreign aircraft that passes through the contentious zone without giving flight information to the Chinese side. (Other ADIZs, by contrast, only require aircraft to notify a country if the planes are continuing on into that nation’s airspace, as opposed to merely passing through.)

Over the past week, South Korea, Japan and the U.S. have all flown military aircraft through the ADIZ without warning Beijing — in direct contravention of the rules China unilaterally set up last month. Tokyo and Seoul have also instructed their nations’ commercial airliners not to heed the Chinese demand for flight information. But American authorities have taken a different tack, advising U.S. airlines to inform Beijing of their coordinates in order to ensure their safety, while cautioning that they do not condone the creation of the zone itself. This U.S. stance has led the Japanese, in particular, to worry that the Chinese ADIZ is already attracting a modicum of legitimacy from the outside world.

Biden’s trip, which began on Monday in Tokyo and will then continue on to Beijing and Seoul, already had a component of fence-mending built into it. In October, amid the American debt standoff, U.S. President Barack Obama canceled a trip to Asia. (He is now expected to visit the region in April.) It thus falls on Obama’s loquacious Vice President to assure the continent that the U.S. takes it seriously, after more than a decade in which Washington’s attention has been preoccupied by the Middle East. A statement from the White House noted that Biden’s trip is designed to “underscore our commitment to rebalancing U.S. foreign policy towards the Asia-Pacific.” Some in the region, however, worry about the long-term U.S. commitment to that goal.

(MORE: Are China and Japan Inching Closer to War Over a Few Disputed Islets?)

The fraught situation in the East China Sea and other territorial disputes China has with neighbors in the South China Sea may force the U.S. to focus more intently on nurturing its ties with regional partners. Such a strategy, though, runs the risk of looking like a containment of China, a rising power whose economic and geopolitical heft has transformed the continent — and, indeed, the world — over the past decade.

The Obama Administration has repeatedly said its Asia rebalancing isn’t directed specifically at China. But few buy that, least of all Beijing. Meanwhile, other East Asian nations have been busy ramping up their military outlays, especially as China has taken a brawnier attitude toward the defense of turf in contested waters. Another development that shows the serious security situation in East Asia: this fall, both Japan and China formed new committees that resemble the U.S.’s National Security Council.

On Wednesday in Beijing, Biden is scheduled to meet Xi Jinping, China’s vigorous President who emerged with even greater clout after a key Communist Party conclave last month. Although the Americans don’t wish for the ADIZ issue to cloud the entire visit, Biden will surely be making his government’s dissatisfaction with the zone clear to the Chinese. At the same time, Xi will have to clarify to the U.S. why he signed off on the ADIZ last month. From the Chinese perspective, other Asian nations like Japan and South Korea have long carved out such patches of their own. Why shouldn’t Beijing do the same — and have its zone extend to what China believes is its territory, despite competing claims from Tokyo and Seoul?

“China needs to explain very clearly why we did this,” says Shen Dingli, a professor of international relations at the prestigious Fudan University in Shanghai, who has advised Chinese foreign policy makers. “This is specifically against the illegitimate action of Japan and the United States. Japan made its ADIZ in 1969 and included what is China’s territory [the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands]. We tolerated this. Then last year, Japan nationalized the islands. We cannot tolerate it anymore. We warned that Japan should bear all the consequences for its actions, and the battle lines are now drawn.” Such steadfast opinions are hardly the exception in China, where mistrust of the Japanese runs deep.

Biden and Xi apparently enjoy a good rapport, stemming from the days when Xi was China’s Vice President and the American hosted his Chinese counterpart. “I would say [Biden] knows President Xi as well or better than probably any American, and possibly virtually any leader,” says a senior Obama Administration official. Given the chilliness in the air over lines drawn in the sky, a little show of warmth — between the Vice President of a superpower and the former Vice President of a rising one — may be just what is needed as winter looms.

MORE: China and Japan May Not Like Each Other, but They Need Each Other

51 comments
sunnny.pratt
sunnny.pratt

The Chinese aggression towards all of her neighboring countries is real cause of concern. they are bullying Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, Brunei, Indonesia, India etc. They are occupying Tibet for last 60 years and brutally killing people and caused his holy Dalai Lama to exile in India. World should stand up now against this Chinese aggression otherwise we'll see another Fascist nation pushing world to another war. 

scaelon3
scaelon3

The real threat is to the petrodollar.  China has forged an alliance with Russia and has the military power to challenge U.S. dollar supremacy.  Smaller nations like Venezuela can now abandon the dollar without fearing retaliation from the U.S. military.


23 nations including Britain, Germany, France and even Japan are now trading in Yuan.  The U.S. is in an extremely weak position and China has presented its challenge at the most opportune time in recent history.

jefforsythe9
jefforsythe9

My only objective when I post any comment is to bring to the World the truth concerning the blood-thirsty Chinese Communist Party's fiendish treatment of the tens of millions of innocent Falun Gong practitioners who live in China. There are hundreds of thousands being tortured in slave camps and their organs are being harvested while they are alive. Thank you for your concern.

EhabSaad
EhabSaad

thanks

www.fedv.bu.edu.eg

ChinaLee
ChinaLee

China's ADIZ (ie. air defense identification zone) is one-tenth the size of China's landmass.

On the other hand, the JAPANESE ADIZ is FOUR times larger than the entire landmass of Japan.

Biden needs to tell Japan to reduce their JAPANESE ADIZ by 95%!

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jefforsythe9
jefforsythe9

I am amazed how naive people are concerning the brutal Chinese Communist Party. The CCP has murdered eighty million of its own people since 1949 and since 1999 has been attempting the genocide of the tens of millions of innocent Falun Gong practitioners by the use of torture, slavery, organ harvesting and murder. The CCP is a blood-thirsty gangster regime but people living in the West as well as most Chinese are being kept in the dark concerning its true nature because of greed and the total control of the Chinese media by the CCP. The Chinese Communist Party is not something that should be shown any respect whatsoever, only disgust and fear.

thingsinasia
thingsinasia

Hey WorldPeas, think you are reading the wrong history book.  All those countries you listed as invaded by China, read the history books again.  Korea - when it was invaded by Japan several centuries ago, it was China (in Ming dynasty) came to Korea's aid;  Mongolia?  It was Ganghis Khan's  nephew I believe (Kubla Khan) who invade and conquered China, forming Yuan dynasty.  And China's attempt to grab territory again?  You talking about the Daio Yu Islands?  They were taken, yes taken, by Japan (when Japan was part of the Third Reich - remember them?  The Nazis?) when Japan invaded and colonized Taiwan, and Diao Yu Island was part of the Taiwan Province at that time (well you would not know since that happened more than 100 years ago).  Then Japan conveniently assigned the Diao Yu Island to Okinawa Prefecture?  Ah ha, but in 1943, the U.S. China and England met in Cairo, agreed on a set of rules of the world order after the Nazis were defeated - the Cairo Document?  In the document it specifically agreed by the 3 nations that all parts of China, including Taiwan and its surrounding islands taken by Japan would be returned to China?  So where is this Diao Yu Island belong to Japan?

Dude, smell what you are shoving.  It looks like you are consciously or unwittingly helping the still alive Imperial Japan's former ghosts to try to get out from the peace constitution imposed on it by the U.S. in 1945, so it can enslave the rest of Asia again sometime in the future.  And don't think Japan won't challenge the U.S. again.   Wake up dude (well since from the name I don't know who you are, and you may very well be one of those who are working to revive the former Imperial Japan).

max.wolff2
max.wolff2

I just wanted to comment that I thought this article was well written. I came in with very little knowledge of this issue, and the writer broke it down nicely. Keep it up!

hkinsey3
hkinsey3

Isn't sending Biden to help stop a war sort of like sending Gilligan to find a way off an island?

mux
mux

I hope Time will investigate further on other ADIZs. It appears Japan's ADIZ was unilaterally enlarged in 2010 at Taiwan's expense. Furthermore, it appears they demand flight plans even if flights are not Japan bound but merely traverses through their self drawn ADIZ. Flight route B591 from Taiwan to northern China is such a route. Taiwan for some reason, probably because of its weak bargaining position, complies and files commercial civilian flight plans to Japan. Even then, they are reporting commercial civilian flights being harassed by JASDF planes. So where's the outrage on this destabilizing, provocative, unilateral, whatever fancy adjectives the media's been using act by Japan? No wonder that country continues to white wash its past, because the world lets them get away with it.

monsterkingkin
monsterkingkin

The reality is: if the US doesn't back Japan, Japan will sit with China to ease the tension, and the status quo will be maintained. If the US backs Japan like backing Israel, we need to prepare for WWIII, sooner or later.

ToddWest
ToddWest

and then sent Biden?  lord helps us, or please someone do......

henry1965
henry1965

"Other ADIZs, by contrast, only require aircraft to notify a country if the planes are continuing on into that nation’s airspace, as opposed to merely passing through"

This isn't true per FAA regulation.

§99.11   ADIZ flight plan requirements.

(a) No person may operate an aircraft into, within, or from a departure point within an ADIZ, unless the person files, activates, and closes a flight plan with the appropriate aeronautical facility, or is otherwise authorized by air traffic control.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=4e4fcc3bec04a0f0862b1a711e6edffc&node=14:2.0.1.3.14.1.9.6&rgn=div8

duduong
duduong

China does not and will not start a war. Japan does not dare to start a war without the US' backing. That leaves only the US, who likes to start wars indeed. So, if the US does not want this war, it simply has to do nothing. Therefore, the title is completely wrong: Mr. Biden does not have to and is not going to stop a war; no war will start unless the US does it.

RobertNguyen
RobertNguyen

Told you guys - u didn't stop its naked aggression in SE Asia, now it moves to Japan. 

Next - there are lots of Chinese in Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Hawaii, and California so all of these territories now belong to China.

As Mao had declared "Power comes from the barrel of a gun" - - -  Logic of the new barbaric power...

Stop these barbaric now before its too late.

jed.mitchener
jed.mitchener

Strictly rationally speaking, any nation that would NOT request approaching (or encroaching) aircraft to file a complete flight plan -- especially for foreign military aircraft, potentially carrying weapons of mass destruction -- would be doing a disservice to it's own citizens in terms of protection.  The area of the map in question is undoubtedly closest to several more million Chinese than Japanese or Koreans.  They clearly have more genuine interest in knowing what aircraft are doing in that part of the world.  What if Chinese warships and aircraft began routinely conducting military exercises off the southern coast of California.  Wouldn't you expect the US gov't to react?  As a US citizen, once again, I'm completely embarrassed by our government's irrational rhetoric.

deanbain
deanbain

Back in 2010 Japan unilaterally declared an ADIZ that included some disputed islands that Taiwan was managing and yet the media didn't raise up a stink over it then. So why are they doing it now?

VictorPerrin
VictorPerrin

Maybe the warmists can put these rocks under water so nobody will want them. Problem solved.  lol

VictorPerrin
VictorPerrin

Biden stop a war?  lol.  Biden couldn't stop water flowing from a kitchen faucet even with his hand on the handle.

5678
5678

Neville Chamberlain rides again!

HAHAHA! LOL!

CharlieJackson
CharlieJackson

china is behaving just like germany before WW2, alittle land here, our traditional reich here. sooner or later there will be war, if they keep behaving like this

mellotronman424112
mellotronman424112

These uninhabited islets are administered by Japan but China makes historic claims to them, arguing that they were part of Japan’s imperial land grab across Chinese territory. Japan argues they were terra nullis and therefore open to an extension of national sovereignty in the late 19th century. More recently, China also views the U.S. as complicit in the mess because the Americans reverted the specks of land to the Japanese in the early 1970s when the final stages of the U.S. occupation ended." essence of the conflict.

small rocky and essentially worthless in the grand scheme but now we have a super power pissing contest starting..the root of most of the world's ills are over population..and sooner or later the her d will be thinned out.

Mrobespierre
Mrobespierre

@jefforsythe9   -  Apparently you fail to understand what the average Chinese citizen knows virtually from birth:  Japan's centuries old history of imperial gangsterism.   Time to education yourself.  But then again, it would surprise me to learn that you would be interested in actual historical facts.  www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/54598/nicholas-d-kristof/the-problem-of-memory

WorldPeas
WorldPeas

@thingsinasia -- You need to wake up and think about this: 1950:  China invades Tibet.  1950: China invades Korea. 1962: China invades India.  1969: China attacks the Soviet Union.  1979: China invades Vietnam (and keeps on fighting through 1990).  Don't forget: 1989: The Chinese Army wages war on its own civilians in the heart of Beijing.   Of course, that was nothing when compared to the previously wonderful slaughter of millions during the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s and 1970s.  Of course, today, the Chinese government just wages low-scale war against its own people -- death camps and mass executions.  Yeah, China is sooooo peaceful!  Read any reputable history of Korea and you'll see that they got hit by the Chinese a lot more than they did by the Japanese.  Sure, Japan invaded Korea, too, but that doesn't make Chinese aggressions any less.  Remember, but for the Chinese invading in 1950, there wouldn't be a North Korea today:  China makes the idiotic reign of the Kim clan in Pyongyang possible.  Of course, you avoid the whole topic of China's irrational claims across the region.  They want to reclaim their status as the Middle Kingdom -- everyone should pay homage to Beijing!  They'd gladly wage war again if they didn't think the Japanese, Koreans and Americans would kick their asses.  So, while they bide their time, the Chinese regime continues to wage war on its own people.  No, I don't want to revive Imperial Japan.  Frankly, Japan is less of a threat to the region than China is.  Modern China does nothing but create enmity with its neighbors, as it keeps pushing for regional hegemony.  You try to avoid China's culpability and belligerence of the post-WWII era by pointing at Imperial Japan -- silly, silly thingsinasia!

JerryTan
JerryTan

@mux well, Time is not obliged to write articles to fit in your contorted versions of reality.

blah blah blah, more wumao nonsense.

JerryTan
JerryTan

@monsterkingkin The reality: if the US does not deal with Chinese aggression, then the Chinese will be further emboldened to invade the waters of South-East Asia, the territory surrounding Japan, Korea and Russia, and the Pacific. China will make further land grabs, all the way east to Guam. You think they will stop at Senkaku? Already they are claiming Okinawa.

If the US backs away now, the way Chamberlain backed away in 1938, then we do need to prepare for WWIII, sooner or later.

JerryTan
JerryTan

@ToddWest The Obama administration has been asleep on the wheel, and is the best gift to the Chinese. Things could have been better if Clinton won the nomination and the White House instead, or McCain.

WorldPeas
WorldPeas

@duduong -- China does not start wars!  That's funny.  Real funny.  History tells us that China loves to invade its neighbors.  Try reading the history of Korea, Vietnam, Tibet, Mongolia, etc.  The Han are not peaceniks.  Indeed, China's attempt to grab territory all across the region is nothing but an attempt to provoke war.  Try again.  

mux
mux

@RobertNguyen - What about Chinese in Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Hawaii, and California? Where are you trying to go with that comment? Sounds like you got some racist inclinations with that comment. Based on your comment, should all Vietnamese go back to Vietnam?

JerryTan
JerryTan

@jed.mitchener ah, another chinese astro-turfer. Did you even read the article before mouthing off? because Ms Beech has clearly addressed the non-question you put forth here.



"I'm completely embarrassed by our government's irrational rhetoric." 

You're right, I'm completely embarassed by your government's - specifically, the CHINESE GOVERNMENT - irrational and violent rhetoric. "Strictly rationally speaking", of course.



JerryTan
JerryTan

@CharlieJackson Giving in to Chinese Aggression would be winning "peace for our time." 


deal with this cancer before it metastasizes. The US has not been helpful by sending mixed signals, and this has only encouraged further chinese aggression.

WorldPeas
WorldPeas

@mellotronman424112 -- It's really not about the rocks and it isn't totally a pissing contest.  It is a fight over the ocean around the rocks.  All over East and Southeast Asia, countries are intensifying their fight over the control of ocean resources: fisheries and energy resources in particular.  No one cares to live on these islands -- like the Korean argument with Japan over Dokdo/Takeshima, this fight between Japan and China isn't about the stupid rocks.  Nobody cared about them until recent fishing wars began.  The oceans are running lower on fish all the time, particularly around Eastern Asia.  If war starts, it will be over fishing rights, not useless rocks.

jefforsythe9
jefforsythe9

The Chinese Communist Party is what it is. You have the right to see things anyway that you want. It is your choice. Have a nice day.

mux
mux

@JerryTan @mux - blah blah blah, you're really contorting reality and need to go do some research, oh wait, that would upend your reality

Mrobespierre
Mrobespierre

@JerryTan  - incorrect - the US will not prepare for WWIII because it  will not have money to do so. Instead it will need to prepare for bankruptcy and depression.  China's ace card is its holding of $1.16 trillion USD in US Treasury bonds, growing by the billions each month.  China begins dumping those Treasuries onto the world market, the US economic recovery collapses.  China already knows that the US has lost its appetite for adventures in global intervention and must necessarily reduce the scale of the US military.  If anyone believes that the so-called US economic recovery is real, simply explain why Wall Street tanks injto a freefall at the very whisper that  the Federal Reserve will start tapering off the $85B of  monthly life support feeding the US economy. 


China plays the Diaoyu Island cards at this time as a calculated foreign policy based on Sun Tsu's Art of War:   move against your moment at his weakest moment.   The US "pivot" or realignment to Asia comes at a time when it has lost its appetite - and ability - to intervene in the Middle East.  Russia regained international prestige at the expense of the US in Syria, where the US demonstrated it has become a paper tiger.  The average US citizen will not give a rat's hiney if Japan loses these islands to China; every US citizen will rise up against WWIII simply to back Japan's play. 


This is the Sino-Vietnam-Soviet card being played by China -  yet again:


"On January 1, 1979, Chinese Vice-premier Deng Xiaoping visited the United States for the first time and spoke to American president Jimmy Carter: "Our little buddy is getting naughty, it's time he be spanked." (original Chinese words: 小朋友不听话,该打打屁股了。) On February 15, the first day that China could have officially announced the termination of the Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance, Deng Xiaoping declared that China planned to conduct a limited attack on Vietnam.

The reason cited for the attack was the mistreatment of Vietnam's ethnic Chinese minority and the Vietnamese occupation of the Spratly Islands (claimed by China). To prevent Soviet intervention on Vietnam's behalf, Deng warned Moscow the next day that China was prepared for a full-scale war against the Soviet Union; in preparation for this conflict, China put all of its troops along the Sino-Soviet border on an emergency war alert, set up a new military command in Xinjiang, and even evacuated an estimated 300,000 civilians from the Sino-Soviet border.[27] In addition, the bulk of China's active forces (as many as one-and-a-half million troops) were stationed along China's borders with the Soviet Union.[28]

In response to China's attack, the Soviet Union sent several naval vessels and initiated a Soviet arms airlift to Vietnam. However the Soviet Union felt that there was simply no way that they could directly support Vietnam against China; the distances were too great to be an effective ally, and any sort of reinforcements would have to cross territory controlled by China or U.S. allies. The only realistic option would be to indirectly restart the simmering border war with China in the north. Vietnam was important to Soviet policy but not enough for the Soviets to go to war over. When Moscow did not intervene, Beijing publicly proclaimed that the Soviet Union had broken its numerous promises to assist Vietnam. The Soviet Union's failure to support Vietnam emboldened China to announce on April 3, 1979, that it intended to terminate the 1950 Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance, and Mutual Assistance."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War


China emasculated the Soviet Union - and it's mutual defense pact with North Vietnam - on the world stage.    China intends to play that same card with the Japanese-US mutual defense treaty.


China will gradually demonstrate to the US and its allies that the US will not or cannot defend Japan over this territorial dispute.   It may well be once that lesson is taught, China will open the door to compromise and - once Japan and Abe cease blustering, which will abjectly follow once the US steps back - Japan/China trade will no longer be at risk.


Two dynamics must be understood:


First, having played this card, China will not back down and lose face.

Second, this is not merely CCP foreign strategy.  China's peoples have long memory of Japan's centuries old outlaw history of imperial gangsterism.    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/54598/nicholas-d-kristof/the-problem-of-memory


This will not go gentle into this good night.



duduong
duduong

@WorldPeas @duduong 

China has not been in a war for 34 years. How many wars has the US been in during the same period? 

Counting Chinese wars over 4 thousand years of history and comparing those to two hundred years of American ones is like saying China emits more CO2 than the US, technically correct but factually misleading: Chinese per capita emission is less than 1/3 of the US. Only because China has 4 times the population does its total emission go higher.

The latest international ranking on education performance just came out: Once again, China sits at the top while the US lies near the bottom. Your mathematically challenged statement is a living proof of American education failure.

JerryTan
JerryTan

@mux @RobertNguyen Southeast Asians of Chinese ancestry, or the "Chinese in Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia" as you put it, are worried of Chinese irredentism, to create lebensraum in the region. Nguyen was making a point on how Han racists tend to make land-grabs based on delusions of Han solidarity and myths of empire. I understood his point, it's not his fault that you can't.

Time for the US to be a shining light on a hill once more, and put an end to Chinese aggression before the Western Pacific falls under the bamboo curtain.



JerryTan
JerryTan

@mux @JerryTan haha i'm not the one begging time to write an article based on han racism, so what research do i need?

what reality did i suggest in the statement above? hahaha, nice projecting, by the way. 

JerryTan
JerryTan

@monsterkingkin @JerryTan so, basically you got nothing to address what i've just said, besides a one-liner? you plan on doing the (failed) comedy circuit sometime soon?

that's alright, run along now boy. the adults are talking.

WorldPeas
WorldPeas

@duduong @JerryTan -- China invaded India in 1962: a surprise attack.  China attacked the Soviet Union in 1969: a surprise attack.  China invaded Vietnam in 1979.  China invaded Korea in 1950 -- but for Chinese belligerence (and insecurity), Korea would be united and North Korea wouldn't exist.  Tibet sacked the Chinese capital in provocation of the 1950 invasion of Tibet?  Really?  duduong, you need to read a bit more about the history of China since the Communists took over.  Good luck!

JerryTan
JerryTan

@duduong @JerryTan ah, the rubes out to play again. why, are you going to send me on a re-education campaign because the truth does not fit into your delusions?

i don't know what kind of textbooks they use in china, but its common knowledge that china has invaded russia and india in her history, and the only reason mongolia has not been completely annexed like tibet is because they very astutely took on the USSR as an ally.


"Chinese forces have annexed Mongolia and Tibet, but in both cases, the outsiders attacked China and sacked Chinese capital first."

hahaha i love this. pretty much sums up the mentality of YOU PEOPLE, really. waa waa waa they started it first, everyone is out to get china because her experiences are so exceptional that no other nation has gone through it. Chinese aggression are rationalised as "defensive" purposes, whereas the "outsiders" as you put it, are always the aggressors. You poor dears.

china has been brutal and merciless in every area she has invaded, no more and no less than everyone else. the only reason the periphery has escaped the damage of the centre is because these han racists consider the periphery to be filled with barbarians, and not worth the time. so let's stop with the excuses already. 

According to chinese history, what is once "part" of china, no matter how tenuously, will always be Chinese territory, and independently states escaping chinese aggression are secessionist movements, foreign agitators, (insert favourite bogeyman here).

so i guess we are in agreement that china is just as brutal as any power, say... japan, when she was on invading Vietnam, Korea, ah, basically all her neighbours then?

it's alright, i have had enough debates with unreconstructed han racists, brainwashed chinese nationalists like yourself to know that it is hopeless talking to YOU PEOPLE. My aim was never to convince folks like youselfe, steeped in their victimhood complex and brain-washing. In fact, this is a good exercise in informing the rest of the readers here on the true nature of China's rise, and on how accomodation with China is a lost cause. Your knee-jerk defensiveness is a perfect example of that!

Nah, it is you who has not read the article before bloviating with your weird examples and rationalisations. I guess you just need a soapbox to air your grievances. typical tiong behaviour. don't worry, i'm used to it.

duduong
duduong

@JerryTan 

I don't usually reply to clearly uneducated people, but I will make an exception for you.

Have you read the article itself and my original post? The whole issue is about Americans whining about China, and my point is that this is hypocrisy running rampant. I don't know how your puny mind can come up with the idea that the US is off subject.

When did China ever invade Russia, India and mongolia? Your dream world?

Chinese forces have annexed Mongolia and Tibet, but in both cases, the outsiders attacked China and sacked Chinese capital first.

China was the world's number 1 power from the 5th century to the 18th. After that 1300 years, Koreans, Vietnamese, Tibetans and Turks are still by far the majority population of their lands. The US was the world's number 1 for less than 200 years, in how many states are Indians still majority? Even Hawaiians are now less than 10% of the local population after just 100 years of occupation. There is simply no comparison. Anyone who criticizes China without condemning the US much harsher is a hypocrite. 

JerryTan
JerryTan

@duduong @WorldPeas China has invaded Tibet and East Turkestan, and is continuing it's occupation there. And they have been brutal and merciless occupiers.

I don't understand what it is with YOU PEOPLE that the US gets dragged in as a punching bag all the time. Inferiority complex much? WorldPeas did not mention the US in his statement, and it would be good if you actually address his points.

China is at war with Tibet and east Turkestan, and has, as WorldPeas states, invaded and brutally occupied Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia, Russia, India, in her history. They made a go at Japan before giving up, so basically, all of her neighbours.

Nice qualifier though, your obviously skewered and oddly specific timeframe of "34 years." I'll let that slide, to point out that the only reason China is not embroiled in more wars is because they have been an economic basketcase and joke in the world until recently, thanks to the policies of your Dear Mao. Apparently, this is about to change, and Chinese aggression is on the rise again.

JerryTan
JerryTan

@mux @JerryTan @RobertNguyen 

why, do i have to ask for your permission to write something, just like in your commie china?

nah, the racist undertone is in your han superiority complex, and i called you out for playing the race card. so what is this "racist inclination" of robert that you speak of, pray tell? i would love to see your the warped logic and interpretation that you have to come up with that one haha.


typical han racist, 1 billion strong!



mux
mux

@JerryTan @mux @RobertNguyen - Now you speak for Robert? Or are you Robert himself? I understood a racist undertone which you subscribe to. The "Chinese in Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia" is not as I put it, it was Robert, shesh, go learn some reading skills.