Cairo Counts Its Dead After Egypt’s Crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood

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Khalil Hamra / AP

Egyptians mourn over the bodies of their relatives in the El-Iman mosque in Nasr City, Cairo, on Aug. 15, 2013

The official death toll climbed to 638 nationwide on Thursday in the Egyptian government’s violent crackdown on protest encampments organized by supporters of deposed President Mohamed Morsi, making it the single deadliest incident since the January 2011 revolution that ended the dictatorship of President Hosni Mubarak. Egypt’s Health Ministry added that there were at least 3,717 injured, and casualty figures are expected to climb. The Interior Ministry separately announced that 43 security personnel died in the violence.

The deaths have cast a pall over Egypt, which is in the grips of a political crisis no less intense than the original upheavals that unseated Mubarak. According to government figures, 846 people were killed during the 18 days of the pro-democracy revolution in 2011. Yesterday’s crackdown ended over a month in which Morsi’s supporters had doggedly camped out in public squares, demanding his reinstatement. Egypt’s military had removed Morsi, an official in the Muslim Brotherhood who had won Egypt’s presidential election in 2012, from power on July 3 after a major wave of street protests over his handling of the economy and for failing to govern inclusively.

The largest number of fatalities, at least 137 according to a Health Ministry spokesman quoted by the government-owned Al-Ahram news website, took place when security forces backed by bulldozers and helicopters forcibly dispersed a sit-in that had grown to the size of a village in Rabaa Adaweya Square, in the suburban Cairo neighborhood of Nasr City. At the nearby Al-Iman Mosque, where many of the bodies were taken, it was clear that Egypt’s political convulsions were entering an even darker, more violent phase.

(PHOTOS: Hundreds Dead After Egypt’s Crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood)

At the doors of the mosque, hundreds of onlookers and members of bereaved families jostled to get inside. One man stood solemnly in the crowd with a half-burned copy of a Koran he said he had recovered from the camp.

The door periodically burst open and volunteers inside struggled to keep the crowds at bay, spraying air freshener — used within to mask the stench of death — in the eyes of people trying to enter. A group of men stood at the door, sweating and perplexed. One was trying to deliver ice to preserve the bodies. Another carried paperwork that he said permitted him to enter.

The door opened again. Men carrying a coffin emerged. The crowd shouted “Allahu akbar!” (God is Great!) Then the doors slammed shut.

The door would open again and again, every few minutes, each time a new body emerging, each time triggering new chants of “Allahu akbar!” One small body, perhaps belonging to a child or teenager, also came through the door, wrapped in a sheet.

Inside the mosque, the scene was calmer. A man read the names of the dead over a loudspeaker. Family members sat with the corpses of their loved ones, wrapped in white sheets, packed in ice. Some of the bodies were burned beyond recognition. Some were missing limbs. Others’ skulls had been crushed.

Back outside, some of the protesters displaced from the Rabaa sit-in lingered in the courtyard, not knowing what to do next. The interim military-backed government has declared a monthlong state of emergency and imposed an all-night curfew in the capital and 10 other provinces. Cairo’s usual gridlock traffic was nowhere to be found on Thursday, and the number of cars on downtown Cairo’s streets dwindled even further as the 7 p.m. curfew approached.

Muhammad Azmi Mustafa, 28, an imam from a Cairo mosque, said he had visited the encampment nearly every day for a month, and had been present when the crackdown began. He described a ferocious scene of security forces attacking by both land and air, firing bullets and tear gas.

When asked what direction the pro-Morsi movement will now take, Mustafa demurs. “The decision is the martyrs’ families’ now. It’s not up to us,” he says. But he was certain of one thing. “Peaceful protest is dead now.”

MORE: Egypt’s Military Cracks Down on Muslim Brotherhood: Will Chaos Follow Killings?

105 comments
chainivory
chainivory

Allah AKBAR DOES NOT MEAN GOD IS GREAT, ALLAH IS THE NAME OF THEIR GOD, NOT JEHVA THE GOD OF THE CHRISTIANS.

solardowork
solardowork


Christian churches are being attacked by not the religion of peace Islam and Muslims.

Al Qaeda Flag Flies Above Christian Churches in Egypt.

Attack on Christians and Churches in Egypt Islam and Muslim killing Christians.

Obama will not lift a finger its only Christians and their Churches.


North America’s LARGEST ECONOMIC ENGINE comes to an end and our leaders did almost nothing why?   50 Potential Terrorist Acts Prevented and most all could have been done without violating over 300 million American's GOD given and OUR U.S. CONSTITUTION RIGHTS TO FREEDOM. How many aided or watched and did not a thing.   AROUND THE WORLD MANY JOURNALIST HAVE GIVEN THEIR LIFE FOR TELLING THE WORLD THE TRUTH. JUST ONE OF MANY MEXICO IS KILLING THE PRESS AND JOURNALISTFOR EXPOSING THE LAUNDERING OF BILLIONS.IS THIS NEXT TO HAPPEN IN THE USA?

("Press Freedom: Journalist in Mexico Killed for Reporting on Drug Cartels | Human Rights First")  (Journalist around the world are killed for Reporting on and about the bad wicked corrupt leaders, that their bad deeds out number their good deeds. Only in government for the power and money.)   True Blooded Americans fly OLD GLORY the day might come soon that it will be your last time.   ("IRAN and NORTH KOREA WE ARE GOING TO TAKE DOWN THE USA obama too late i already did it.") This may soon not be so funny, as just a cartoon.) North Korean ship caught in Panama with Military Weapons   Missiles two Mig fighter jets and more. This ship is only one of how many more that have got by?  Fort Hood the CIA and FBI Terrorism Task Force had been watching this man and knew he was a Traitor to the USA and had done acts of TREASON. Why was he not already in jail? 50 Potential Terrorist? Or aiding some?  What leader on earth would watch someone do acts of treason against his Nation and not stop them on the first or second act little lone wait till they cold heart ed Murdered many be for he put him in jail. USA Leaders if you are lost and need a role model look to Canada.   Every 9-11 they are going to try.   September the wicked will always look to kill others Munich Germany 1972. 11 of the ISRAELI Olympic Athletes were killed by the wicked. Special Forces sent Air Mail to ten terrorist training PLO Bases in SYRIA and LEBANON in response. 200 died 11 for 200 you do the math. The wicked are at war with all that believe in Jesus Christ. Every year since they have tried or done acts of Terror every September only the real slow in the head in government do not know, to be ready each and every September. From the Religion of ? not Peace at a average rate of 3 or more atrocities are committed worldwide each day all in the name of ? islam the Religion the terrorist use.   Some will never Learn till it is too late.   The only group of wicked that kill close to this rate a year is the Drug Cartels.   Friends of Obama get away with anything right? Fort Hood Work place Bull S... cover up.   In the hearts of every True American that has ever stepped foot on a United Stated Military Base. These 13 Murdered Victims already have are Heart, and in our minds We All Know They Have Clearly Earned the PURPLE HEART ALREADY.   Some of our leaders of this One Nation Under GOD need to be on trial for TREASON.   We The People Live by are Lord GOD and "The U.S. CONSTITUTION"   NOT SOME SICK IN THE HEAD LEADERS.   "The U.S. CONSTITUTION ARTICLE III SECTION 3."   (AID OR COMFORT TO THE ENEMIES HOSTILE TO US)   (ANY ASSISTANCE RENDERED TO A FOREIGN STATE HOSTILE TO US)   (CONDUCT WHICH UNDERMINES THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA OR ARE GOVERNMENT OR ARE NATIONAL SECURITY)   Negotiating with terrorists act of TREASON.   GIVING ARE TAX MONEY TO OTHER COUNTRIES THAT SUPPORT TERRORIST OR TERRORIST GROUPS ACT OF TREASON.     Taking down are Military by WEAKEN MILITARY READINESS YET KEEPS SENDING MANY MILLIONS OF OUR TAX MONEY TO OTHER COUNTRIES.   THIS IS OBAMA'S PLAN FOR JOBS WORKING AS HE PLANED.   MASSIVE TAX ON ALL EMPLOYERS PUTTING MILLIONS OUT OF WORK. MANY MORE EMPLOYERS CUT FULL TIMERS TO PART TIME.THE ONCE LARGEST ECONOMIC ENGINE IN THE WORLDMOTOR CITY USA SHUTDOWN   (CONDUCT WHICH UNDERMINES THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA OR ARE GOVERNMENT OR ARE NATIONAL SECURITY)   What Part of this did all Americans let anyone cut out of our hearts or are (U.S. CONSTITUTION) "The U.S. CONSTITUTION ARTICLE III SECTION 3."   MORE THEN 50 MILLION AMERICANS OUT OF WORK OR ON FOOD AID THIS YEAR 2013. AND SOME SO CALLED U.S. LEADERS OF WHAT THE WICKED ARE GOING TO KEEP SENDING YOUR TAXES OUT OF THE COUNTRY?   Why to keep taking a piece of the pie for them self's. Too many of these so called leaders went   into office with little to nothing and leave with millions, and they think that all America is that stupid.   They must be working more for them self then for GOD and Country.   Americans the next time you vote use a Black Pen not a pencil may be your vote will count.   Leaders that put pencils in the voting poll-booths need to be in jail. If they will not safe guard America who will? Pencils to vote with and the wicked call this safeguarding your vote. Anything that can be changed or tampered with is NOT to be used in a voting place ever this was taught to all board of elections back when i was a Judge. Back then many a democrat did wicked things.   Responsible   for the fall of the second most powerful man in the United States of America   Dan Rostenkowski, Democrat-Illinois   Democrat controlled and run cities are some of the highest crime places in this country. This is sad for all that live in and around them. You can not work for satan and GOD at the same time.


(" When Injustice Becomes Law Rebellion Becomes Duty " THOMAS JEFFERSON ).

("United We Will Always Stand in GOD We Trust" George Washington and Johann Paul Schott 12/24/1776. 3:45AM)

("In GOD We Trust")
The United States of America’s Motto July 30, 1956.
King David’s Motto 3,000 years ago.

Soon all the World will Pray to Our Lord GOD and Savior Jesus Christ.
 "United We Will Always Stand in Our Lord GOD and Savior Jesus Christ We Trust"
True Americans True Patriots GOD Bless  May are Lord and Savior Jesus Christ   Guide and Watch over us all.   The Lord's Little Helper   Paul Felix Schott   PS   IS THIS THE?   (((The U.S.A. land base of the Great Satan   Concealing And Laundering Billions From the Sweat and Blood Work Of Millions of Christians That follow our Lord Jesus Christ And they will cut your head off if you have a Bible just like (PAULMARSHALLJOHNSONJR.)   Islamic Republic Den Of Spies And Espionage 2209 Wisconsin Avenue N.W. Washington D.C. 20007 202-965-4990)))

WE ALL NEED TO KEEP WATCH FOR TERRORIST NOT PATRIOTIC AMERICANS.

i pray we Americans are past the1750's some wicked leaders are not. Looks like then are doing witch huntsWitch-hunt undermining those with differing view of the Wicked that work not for GOD and Country.
Was US State Department Navy SEAL Sean Smith and CIA security Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods and J. Christopher Stevens lives “Silence ed” to cover up the Billions of USA Money that some of our leaders are Laundering out of America to the wicked?

ginterparkguy
ginterparkguy

I am not condoning what the military and police did, but I also don't think what they did is wrong.  Here's why - pseudo Tiananmen Square - unless you are a martyr (to be read - willing to die) - why would you provoke the military ?  I know the muslims have this religious thing (1st issue) about being a martyr...but GEEZ...are you really that ignorant to think..."they are not going to do this again right?"    but hey...muslim brotherhood....guess you will all "pay your respects to the dead as brothers" right?  will that make it all better for you, the deads families?  NO it won't...y'all are just plain stupid to do this to YOURSELVES....not that I agree with the muslim brotherhood....as to me they are just Egypt's national terrorists themselves...so it appears...but wouldn't ANYONE rather "Live and fight another day" ????

lk312
lk312

TIME moderators stink!!!  It's been hrs and they still haven't taken down very graphic video and pictures of guy w/head shot off and children being murdered.

HIRE SOME OVERNIGHT STAFF YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Notme Notegypt
Notme Notegypt

the real number more than thousands, this number who recorded until now

DRAIDA
DRAIDA

Muslim Brotherhood claim to be peaceful protestors but in fact they are an organised, armed & international group of terrorists just like Al Qaida. They have been using big guns against Egypt authority. They killed a lot of army & police officers & burnt 52churches in 24hours. In their "Camps" police found a grave filled with bodies shot with signs of torture for people who tried to leave and go home. In one year & before he was disposed, Morsi released a lot of MB TERRORISTS from prisons and placed them in important posts. He even appointed one of the bombers to the tourists bus in Luxor 1997 as a governor to Luxor! Egypt is in a bloody war against terrorism alone. The success of the complete fall of MB in Egypt could weakens the power of the hand of terrorism in the whole world. What happened in London to soldier Lee Rigby is an example to their effect on the world. They form a septic focus which radiates terror & abuse of religion to other countries including UK & USA. Obama is wrong to defend them as they are not civilians but trained terrorists just like who did 9/11.The world might be less worse place without them.

Spirit Wounded
Spirit Wounded

Egyptian message from a young man to the U.S. administration Egypt will always remain in spite of all the spiteful, envious exploiter Be careful as you play with the Pharaohs makers civilization masters of history

George Lotfy
George Lotfy

to whole world :i am an Egyptian christian person .i want just to imagine if your beloved church has been burned to the ground ,if you are forbidden to pray ,even you can not leave your home to go to your work and your waiting to attacked or even killed &your family at any time .I want you to understand the feeling to be threatened to be killed or kidnapped you or any of your family.Try to imagine that you while driving your car you are stopped tortured to death just because you are putting a cross in your car.imagine that you are attacked at your home being beat to death then dragged your body and your family is forbidden to bury your body .i am sorry that is the truth that what is happening nowadays by the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan)to the Egyptian christian people .these criminal are being protected by your president (Sheikh Obama bin Laden) .please i am urging you to take a strong action to help Egyptian people eliminating these criminal gangsters

Shaymaa A. Moursy
Shaymaa A. Moursy

to all my friends , please share this message to your friends to make them know the real situation we face in Egypt. Dear Mr Obama , Sorry Egypt will never be a new Syria we don't want to be new Iraq or new Syria , we want still Egypt a united country famous of its peaceful people that is why we joined the 30 june revolution against a man who is a member of political isalmic group controlling other groups some of them related to alqaeda. those was trying to change our culture , our ethics , our souls. so they started fights with the judiciary , with the police , and with local media and with the Egyptian people themselves. please revise these events and tell me are the Egyptian was wrong in this revolution ..... remember when our ex president Morsi when he put an member of the Islamic group a governor of Luxor and he was the same person who killed the tourist in 1997 in hatchebsut temple please see what these groups did yesterday by burning the churches and monasteries , please check the internet and see the weapons they were keeping during their sit-in .... please see how they used yesterday in killing Egyptians all over the country before you judge our police our our country or us as Egyptians , see the truth don't listen to the united states government who was planning all of this with these groups to make Egypt a new Syria .we are correcting the way to 25 jan revolution they were trying to make Egypt the country you loved to be the land of terrorism that is why you stopped to visit our country as before , that is why we support our new government and our army thank you

mhmahamed66
mhmahamed66

حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل فى كل من ايد واباح القتل 

Farooq Azam Baloch
Farooq Azam Baloch

O God help us muslims and destroy the enemies of the Islam and muslim umah. protect us from evil and give us power to stand agaisnt our enemies and finish them.

Sarah Yakoub
Sarah Yakoub

that is your opinion and i respect it but there is one fact which is more bright than the sun ......america hate all muslims and consider them terrorists ....so what do you think about the situation of usa with MB??? in my opinion it is so clear that there is something common between usa & MB....this is my opinion and all the people who are supporting our armed forces

hanygeorge
hanygeorge

What is happening in #Egypt is now an internal matter and we are the people of Egypt commissioned Egyptian army and police to deal with the elimination of the terrorist group will not allow any State whatever to intervene in this matter. Egypt is a #sovereign state

بالفرنسية
Qu'est-ce qui se passe en #Egypte est maintenant une affaire interne et nous sommes le peuple de l'Egypte juges a commandé l'armée Egypte et de la police de l'élimination du groupe terroriste ne permettra pas un État que ce soit à intervenir dans cette affaire l'Egypte est son Etat souverain
بالالمانية
Was in #Ägypten geschieht, ist nun eine interne Angelegenheit, und wir sind die Menschen in Ägypten Richter beauftragt Ägypten Armee und Polizei die Beseitigung der terroristischen Vereinigung wird nicht zulassen, jeden Staat, was in dieser Angelegenheit zu intervenieren Ägypten Ihr souveräner Staat ist
بالاسبانية
Lo que está sucediendo en #Egipto es ahora un asunto interno y nosotros el pueblo de Jueces Egipto Egipto encargó ejército y la policía de la eliminación de la banda terrorista no permitirá que ningún Estado lo que para intervenir en este asunto Egipto es su Estado soberano
بالتركية
Ne Mısır'da oluyor şimdi bir iç meselesidir ve biz #Mısır Hakimler insanlar Mısır Onun egemen bir devlet ne olursa olsun bu konuda müdahale Mısır ordusu ve polis terör örgütü ortadan kaldırılması herhangi bir devlet izin vermez devreye
بالايطالية
Quello che sta accadendo in #Egitto è ormai una questione interna e noi siamo il popolo d'Egitto Giudici commissionato Egitto esercito e la polizia l'eliminazione del gruppo terroristico non permetteranno uno Stato qualunque sia di intervenire in questa materia l'Egitto è il suo stato sovrano

AliGoria
AliGoria

Imagine how bad it would be without Obama in office to transform the world, cure the weather and create the ultimate statist run utopia.

Amit-Atlanta-USA
Amit-Atlanta-USA

While the entire Muslim world exploded in anger in response to the burning of the HOLY KORAN by a lunatic FL pastor, there is not even a WHIMPER OF PROTESTS at the daily mass killings going in Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan and Nigeria with MUSLIMS KILLING OTHER MUSLIMS.

Add to that the TOTAL APATHY of leftist Western media and people on the BUTCHER OF CHRISTIANS & other minorities, DESTRUCTION OF CHURCHES in Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, Iraq and Nigeria on a daily basis.

Even "so-called" moderate Muslims such as CNN/Time's Mr.FAREED ZAKARIA who is always finding a JUSTIFICATION for terrorist acts committed by his brethren all over the world does not care two hoots about this fact.

Ref: "Mayhem in Mumbai - MAKING SENSE of India's Terrorist Attacks" !!!!! - Newsweek Nov 25, 2008,

Ref: Reflections on 9/11 and aftermath CNN GPS Sept 9th, 2011. - Where Mr. Zakaria called AMERICA AS THE GREATEST DANGER TO THE WORLD & NOT AL-QAEDA!!!

Ref: How Russia Created ITS OWN ISLAMIC TERRORISM PROBLEM" Time, Jan 27th 2011 - written even as the Russians were still picking up dead bodies from the dastardly attack on Moscow a/p by Chechan Islamic terrorists.

Also we saw a steady stream of Mr. Zakaria's PROPHETIC ANALYSIS praising the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD for bringing ISLAMIC DEMOCRACY, even as he completely forgot the butcher of COPTIC CHRISTIANS. In fact mere days after the Alexandria mega church was burnt down Mr.Zakaria was in Egypt and wrote back such an analysis with NO MENTION of the hapless CHRISTIANS.

He even suggested that Egypt ABROGATE the PEACE TREATY with Israel SHAMELESSLY & DECEITFULLY calling it a TREATY BETWEEN TWO REGIMES & NOT TWO PEOPLES.

Wonder what he has to say now!

.

RivaldoRiveiras
RivaldoRiveiras

As always,  muslins doing what muslin do the best....

Heba Gamal
Heba Gamal

Message for Obama and all of America: We are the Egyptian people, we support our army,our police and our government to confront terrorism and Terrorist groups that called " Muslim Brotherhood". any way, our internal matter is NOT YOUR BUSINESS.

Aya S. Mohammed
Aya S. Mohammed

the MB has set fire to more than 20 churches and also some mosques , they WANT Egypt to go through civil war .. it WON'T happen, we Egyptians never fight each other .. and we won't let anyone terrorise us

Tarek Radwan
Tarek Radwan

Not all the people in RABAA were Muslim brotherhood...you are not saying the whole truth...there were thousands of regular Egyptians in RABAA against the COUP and they want to retrieve their revolution back...and they were slaughtered with no mercy by the military and police...you are trying to hide the SUN with a piece of cloth..

Aya S. Mohammed
Aya S. Mohammed

im not saying that there are many innocent people who were killed .. but what makes you so sure that the army did that .. alotta videos have shown that there are people amongst them who brutly murder people in rabaa square .. just for the media's attention .... they have been informed that they should go home but they didn't you only see them and where they're standing still .. but when people go to el tahreer square, you don't even glance on how many they are, you, my friend see this from just one side .. i've seen videos from both sides and i wanted to say my opinion .. they're working for their own benefit not for Egypt's. The foreign countries are taking this as an opportunity to invade Egypt either through media or supplies .. and may i say, the MB are the ones who asked for their help .. Why would they ask for foreigners' help to break this country apart? This is a conspiracy against Egypt and i said before, WE WEILL NOT YIELD to what they're trying to do to our country .. we won't accept any foreign actions in our own land

Mohamed Sanaa
Mohamed Sanaa

مصر**The Egyptian People's Revolution in 30-6 against terrorism and against the terrorist group and In Prime demolition of the first of all the state institutions of the judiciary and the security and military establishment and the country's borders grubby ... draw your attention It is a revolution of the people respected the Egyptian army***

Tarek Radwan
Tarek Radwan

you so see what happens in your county through the Old system Businessmen MEDIA..you are brainwashed...we have many like fox news media in Egypt..and I am sad to see so many regular Egyptians they believe what they are told in the media and don't believe what they see by their own eyes

Aya S. Mohammed
Aya S. Mohammed

It has been proven with millions of videos and pictures that the MB are a bunch of terrorists .. they've made massacres for their own sake not the country's .. The MB must be addressed for who they truly are (TERRORISTS)

vrome
vrome

@Spirit Wounded 

Be serious.   Egypt, the Pharoah's makers,  couldn't even invade a young Israel.  Can you say Sinai?

vrome
vrome

@George Lotfy 

That is horrible.  Christians should be protected.  Luckily the Muslim Brotherhood is no longer in power.  Maybe the next government in Egypt will respect Christians and Jews.  If not, we will have to reshuffle the deck and draw again.


lk312
lk312

@Farooq Azam Baloch Help the Muslims & destroy enemies of Islam?  The problem with Islam is that for far too many Muslims, anybody who isn't a Muslim (or not from their sect of Islam) is "the enemy".  The 2nd problem with Islam is that too many Muslims can't imagine existing in a world where Islam is only a religion and not a political movement or party, and certainly not a civil legal system.  Separation of Church & State, baby - without it, you don't get real democracy.


Please don't bother telling us about how Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace, etc. because it isn't.  The Koran is ambivalent on tolerating the existence of non-Muslims.  On the one hand, it will say that they only need to pay a tax and in other passages, it advocates killing them is if they refuse conversion.  


Islam is certainly not the only religion with tolerance issues, but most other major religions now exist in the modern world and rarely use violence on others to get rid of people who don't hold the exact same views as them.

vrome
vrome

@Sarah Yakoub 

I'm sure America would like a man who stands up for human rights at the helm.  Mohamed ElBaradei would have been an excellent leader.  Unfortunately, he resigned due to the recent human rights abuses.

lk312
lk312

@hanygeorge Clearly, you're either naive or an idiot, because states intervene in other states' affairs everyday in many ways.  Invasion is only a rare, extreme example. 

Everybody does it, including Egypt, who has supported other regimes or resistance movements through many means, including financial aid, military arms, training, or simply rhetorical support (i.e., voting for UN sanctions).  And, if you choose to be on the receiving aid of any such aid, you often have to at least put up with other countries' giving you their opinions in certain types of matters if you want that aid to keep flowing.

Not all matters are solely sovereign affairs.  There is such a thing as war crimes, genocide, and violations of international law that when taken by a government against its own people negates some or all of the authority of that regime. 

vrome
vrome

@hanygeorge Oh brother!  You are the pot calling the kettle black.  I guess it does take a terrorist to know a terrorist.   

State sovereignty is a concept created by man and exists only if another government chooses acknowledge it.  Nation-state boundaries have been drawn and re-drawn. Governments have been formed, recognized, dissolved then recreated in other boundaries.   As an American, I accept whatever foreign government  my country chooses to recognize. If at any point it decides to withdraw its ambassador and sever diplomatic relations with Egypt, so be it.  If it decides to designate Egypt as a terrorist state, so be it.   And if the United States decided that the democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood government of Egypt was going to be too anti-Isreal, and it decided to undermine this legitimately elected Egyptian government, so be it.  But don't be so naive as to think that Egypt has "sovereignty" and that its "sovereignty" prevents interference, because its "sovereignty" only exist in relation to the other nation-states that choose to recognize it.

lk312
lk312

@Heba Gamal WRONG.  You're either naive or an idiot, because countries intervene in other countries' affairs everyday in many ways.  Invasion is only a rare, extreme example. 

Everybody does it, including Egypt, who has supported other regimes or resistance movements through many means, including financial aid, military arms, training, or simply rhetorical support (i.e., voting for UN sanctions).  And, if you choose to be on the receiving aid of any such aid, you often have to at least put up with other countries' giving you their opinions in certain types of matters if you want that aid to keep flowing.  

Also, are you so stupid as to not realize that civil wars often spread to their surrounding neighbors?  Both your allies and most of your enemies don't want to see that happen, so it is the rest of the world's business.

Not all matters are solely sovereign affairs.  There is such a thing as war crimes, genocide, and violations of international law that when taken by a government against its own people negates some or all of the authority of that regime. 

vrome
vrome

@Heba Gamal  No!  You have everything backwards.  Human rights are rights that humans have and they are immutable, God-given, and transpire time and state boundaries.  Human rights do not come from man and they are not created by governments, but are merely preserved and secured by governments and people.  Violations of human rights are everyone's business, regardless of where they occur.  Only a terrorist would think otherwise.  Are you a terrorist?  If you aren't a terrorist, you need to condemn the evil murders and violations of human rights which have been committed by the military coup and the installed puppet regime or else you are a terrorist. 

It's really simple.  You can either be a good guy, or you can be a bad guy.  If you support evil, you are evil.  

bryanfred1
bryanfred1

@Heba Gamal Best I can tell, the west is leaving it to you to sort it our for yourselves.  When Egyptians finally had the right to choose for yourselves after years of dictatorship, perhaps you shouldn't have elected members of the Muslim Brotherhood to run your country?  What exactly did people there think was going to happen?

teshomew28
teshomew28

@vrome what u missed is the violation committed by MB on the minority of egyptian it is comes firs, the violation on coptics and on their church  are u ready to condemn? or r u condemn the act if u r not condemn that u don't have the moral right to say some one a terrorist or not.

vrome
vrome

@teshomew28 @vrome 

Hello there.  I just wanted to take a second to address your comment since you were kind enough to respond to mine.  First off, let me thank you for doing so.  Now that that is out of the way, I would like to address what you wrote and why I disagree with it.  So here it goes.

His statement moved beyond implicit condoning of crimes against humanity, so you can't draw any parallel to me or my post based on the limited focus of my comments or what was lacking.  To do so would be a logical fallacy.   What I mean is this:  My lack of condemning a behavior cannot be construed to be a support of that behavior.  Because my comment didn't include a condemnation of the Muslim Brotherhood, you cannot draw the conclusion that I support the Muslim Brotherhood, and consequently, that I am not morally right to condemn atrocities of the military coup and its puppet regime because I haven't condemned the Muslim Brotherhood.  

The type of logical fallacy you are asserting is an ad ignorantium argument which is based on conclusions which are drawn from an omission or attributed to that omission.  But that conclusions are yours alone, and do not endorse anything else.

It would be impossible to condemn all human rights abuses that have occurred in the world.  There's simply too many of them.  For whatever reason, you picked one and  have used that as your basis to claim that I am in no position to condemn a crime against humanity.  Yet my omission certainly does not equate to his explicit comment "We support our army," for which I addressed and to which I judged and condemned.